[ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation deficiency remediation - nuclear powerpromotion

[Syd H. Levine]

I am no expert on these matters, but isn't he suggesting that if the 0 
exposure folks are higher than expected, and the 1-9 group is lower, that 
you have evidence hormesis is at work?  In fact, if the very low level 
exposures fare just as well as the 1-9 group, it would refute hormesis, no? 
Or at least it would only support the notion that low exposure doesn't hurt 
much, but that would also refute LNT.

Syd H. Levine
AnaLog Services, Inc.
Phone:  270-276-5671
Telefax:  270-276-5588
E-mail:  analog at logwell.com
URL:  www.logwell.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Jacobus" <crispy_bird at yahoo.com>
To: "howard long" <hflong at pacbell.net>
Cc: "radsafe" <radsafe at radlab.nl>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation deficiency remediation - nuclear 
powerpromotion


> That may be true, but that is not the problem here.
> Again, what is the problem with the data in the 1977
> report.  If their was a beneficial effect, wouldn't
> the number of breast cancers for those receiving 1-9
> rads plus those receiving 0 rads still be less than
> the expected number of cancers?  No LNT, just
> epidemiology.
>
> --- howard long <hflong at pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>> MINGLING is the error.
>> Howard
>>
>> John Jacobus <crispy_bird at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> How so? If there are B cancers in the 0 - 1 rad
>> group, O cancers in the observed group of 1 - 9 rad
>> group, and E cancers in the expected cohort group
>> not
>> receiving any radiation exposure, shouldn't the
>> table
>> on page 802 of the 1977 paper shows that B + O < E
>> if
>> the population are normalized to the same sizes?
>> Since B + O > E, where is the beneficial effect? Is
>> that hard to understand? You say you studied
>> epidemiology, so you should understand this process.
>>
>> And what does "WHI hides the benefit of hormone
>> replacement by mingling smokers with non-smokers"
>> have
>> to do with this discussion?
>>
>> --- howard long wrote:
>>
>> > Mingling the 0-1 rad exposures with the 1-9 rad
>> > exposures, HIDES the hormesis,
>> > as WHI hides the benefit of hormone replacement by
>> > mingling smokers with non-smokers.
>> >
>> > Howard Long
>> >
>> > John Jacobus wrote:
>> > First, let me say thank you for reading the 1977
>> > paper.
>> > How can you say that the data on page 802 of this
>> > paper does not refute the fact that women had less
>> > cancers. Are you saying that 105 observed cancers
>> > are
>> > less than the 96 expected based on epidemiological
>> > studies. No LNT involved. I am not talking about
>> the
>> > information about those who received hormetic
>> doses
>> > of
>> > 0-9 rads.
>> >
>> > Are you having trouble accepting the data?
>> >
>> > And what does "as did the benefit from hormone
>> > replacement when the smokers were mingled in WHI"
>> > supposed to mean? Why are you throwing this into
>> the
>> > discussion?
>> >
>> > --- howard long wrote:
>> > > Again,
>> > > Mingling those with no excess radiation (0-1rad)
>> > > with those who may have had a hormetic dose of
>> 1-9
>> > > rad, obscures hormesis (as did the benefit from
>> > > hormone replacement when the smokers were
>> mingled
>> > in
>> > > WHI).
>> > >
>> > > P 802 data of the attachment in no way refutes
>> the
>> > > fact that women receiving 1-9rad had LESS breast
>> > > cancer than those receiving more - and less!
>> That
>> > is
>> > > NOT consistent with lazy-man's LNT!
>> > >
>> > > 1-9rad is beneficial and should not scare people
>> > > getting it from nuclear power waste or Hanford
>> or
>> > > dirty bomb into huge expenditures! Only
>> > bureaucrats
>> > > benefit from the LNT myth.
>> > > . . .
>
> +++++++++++++++++++
> "Embarrassed, obscure and feeble sentences are generally, if not always, 
> the result of embarrassed, obscure and feeble thought."
> Hugh Blair, 1783
>
> -- John
> John Jacobus, MS
> Certified Health Physicist
> e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com
>
>
>
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