[ RadSafe ] criminal action: WG: Casper Sun

Mon Feb 14 15:41:59 CET 2005

Franz,
Age discrimination is bad. No question about it. I am turning 40 this year. Not old at all but considered old by some of those around here. As for the lack of pyrotechnics over the age remark, we are, as a group, trying to keep the flaming to a minimum these days. Perhaps you should take the over 65 comment as a compliment of sorts. People have a perception of age when they believe someone to be knowledgeable in many cases. Maybe the poster was equating your level of expertise with advanced age. But ... Franz, it is most likely that this individual flamed on you because of the treatment you have given to others on the list at times. There are those who come to this list because they need information. If someone asks a stupid question, it is not because they are stupid. It means they are seeking knowledge. Something they believe we, as a group of radiation professionals, possess. For them to choose this list as a source of that information is a compliment to all of us. To malign them or belittle them for asking these questions is, perhaps, perceived as a proverbial slap in the face to the knowledge seekers. We have been given the opportunity to pass on information which is sadly lacking in everyday society. The mass media has vilified radiation and the nuclear industry in general through movies, books, music and every form of media imaginable. Those who seek out the truth about our field should be commended for their thirst for knowledge, not belittled for knowing less than us. Understand that we are, for lack of a better phrase, the Nuclear Clergy. People come to us in search of something few possess ... a true understanding of the nuclear world. They come to us when they hear something that scares them silly to get some affirmation from someone in the know. If we do not cater to those who would learn the truth, we leave them with nowhere else to turn but the images provided by the media i.e. China Syndrom, Atomic Twister, Silkwood etc.

Just my take on the subject. I have a great respect for your level of knowledge and years of experience. It is your behavior which has been a disappointment at times.

Respectfully,
Floyd W.Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl]On
Behalf Of Franz Schönhofer
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:10 AM
To: 'Dietmar Muehlboeck'; radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] criminal action: WG: Casper Sun

RADSAFErs,

I have been flamed recently on a certain topic, on the other hand I
received very positive replies. I hope that this has now settled
somehow. 

But I think it is really necessary to forward that I have been very
surprised by an uncredible attack at the RADSAFE list, issued by a
person whom I do not know and who never has before commented on RADSAFE.
"Dietmar Muehlboeck". He obviously claims to know about Austrian
regulations etc. That he does not know that MR iR means "Ministerialrat
im Ruhestand" and not "Ministerialrat in Ruhe" is of no concern to me. I
am not proud of being "Ministerialrat", but I may put forward that it is
not at all describing a mid-level retired public servant: It is the
second highest hierarchical degree in a ministry. After retirement I am
extremely active in all kind of standardisation, visit conferences since
years on my private money, very often being a member of the scientific
committee, have participated in national, European and IAEA projects and
I am planning ahead of at least two years.   

What bothers me most of all is that he called me (but not excluding
others) as being "quite old" and not being "productive", "around 65
years old" being an "old man". Fortunately I am quite a few years
younger. 

I have no data about the age of RADSAFE users, but from my friends in
the USA I know that many persons are working still at age 70+ because
they like their job. Obviously their companies appreciate their
contribution and do not regard them as being unproductive. I know as
well that a lot of people simply have to work until their death because
of lacking retirement money. 

I do not understand why there is no "flaming" on such a message, I would
have believed that a lot of RADSAFErs - the most valued by me - are
above 65. Really no opinion on this provocation?

Franz Schoenhofer
PhD, MR iR
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
AUSTRIA
phone -43-0699-1168-1319

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im
> Auftrag von Dietmar Muehlboeck
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 10. Februar 2005 07:40
> An: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] criminal action: WG: Casper Sun
> 
> Well,
> The only criminal offense I can see here was conducted by Mr.
Schoenhofer,
> since according to Austrian civilian code one is not entitled to make
> third
> party, private emails public. Mr. Schoenhofer - see here: § 77 UrhG.
> 
> And since Mr. Schoenhofer mentioned to be disturbed by mailers with a
TLD
> .mil - The group shall have in mind that "MR iR" means "Ministerialrat
in
> Ruhe" - iow: a mid-level retired public servant. Fine, but retired in
> Austria means not the same as in the US or UK, where one can retire
from
> service at an age when she/he is still able to be productive. In
Austria
> it
> means that one is quite old, somewhere around 65yrs. So I guess Mr.
> Schoenhofer is an old man abusing this list for compensating years of
> frustration in Austrian public service - and believe me, this can be
> frustrating. So now you might establish an idea on Mr. Schoenhofer's
> mindset.
> 
> Cheers!
> dm+
> 
> 
> > RADSAFErs,
> >
> > Since the change on RADSAFE obviously some persons on RADSAFE
believe
> > that they can behave as if the list was their own. I am flamed in an
> > incredible way and even accused of having "provoked" the flamers.
The
> > flamer used words which I do not want to reproduce here.
> >
> > The latest development is, that I just received a flame (with typing
> > error), which was sent by somebody using my name on a yahoo account
(see
> > below). This is not only illegal, but criminal. I noticed that many
> > messages proposing my suspension from the list have a "mil" in their
> > addresses.  Is RADSAFE developing into these directions?
> >
> > ...yabbayabbayabba...
> >
> > Franz Schoenhofer
> > PhD, MR iR
> > Habicherg. 31/7
> > A-1160 Vienna
> > AUSTRIA
> > phone (international) -43-699-1168-1319
> > phone (national) 0699-1168-1319
> >
> >
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > An: franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
> > Betreff: Casper Sun
> >
> > Franz:  I am replying off line as you requested.  Your attack on
Casper
> > Sun was entirely unwarranted but expected within your limited
benavioral
> > responses.  Casper is a good, intelligent man and his question could
> > have been well answered in general terms explaining assumptions.
You
> > have become even more of a disgrace to the on-line community with
this
> > response.  You should be ashamed, but my guess is that feeling is
beyond
> > you.  Don Davis
> >   _____
> 
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