RE: HP cert's, again.

["Earley, Jack" <jack.earley@rfets.gov>]

I've been ignoring this discussion for the most part, but it reminds me the
time I spent in Texas as an RSO. I had to be certified by the state to do
that job, and I wasn't a CHP. The guy I replaced was a Ph.D. and had been
with the Public Health Service. But everything I looked at, from surveys to
calibrations to source inventories, were in violation of the regulations.
They even had a radiation area in the parking lot when they were calibrating
instruments.

Right before that, I had performed an audit at a DOE facility. The facility
had reams of input from Ph.D.s and probably the highest assessment rate in
the country. But their RP procedures were literally unworkable, especially
for abnormal situation responses. I went back six months later and rewrote
all of their RP operating procedures and part of their RE procedures. The
problem was that they didn't have any people there with real operations
backgrounds; fortunately, their manager selected me for the audit instead of
my competitors (who by the way were all CHPs and mostly MSs and Ph.D.s, but
with no operations backgrounds). 

I later used that audit to qualify for Part 1 of the ABHP exam, but have
since lost interest in taking Part 2. I know other people at some DOE
facilities who pick up an MS in health physics and a few years later pass
the ABHP exam with no problem. They have their places-theoretically, mostly.
But without the operations background, they're as limited as an HP tech
who's never received more than OJT. Both are missing an essential element of
the profession. 
Jack

	-----Original Message-----
	From:	ZAPP, NEAL (JSC-SD)
[SMTP:neal.zapp1%jsc.nasa.gov@inet.rfets.gov]
	Sent:	Wednesday, February 17, 1999 1:50 PM
	To:	Multiple recipients of list
	Subject:	HP cert's, again.

	"I think, since this is a sensitive issue, we loose sight of the
fact that
	public safety is the number one goal and if in trying to meet this
goal some
	very competent folks get turned off because they have not gone to
the effort
	to get licensed/
	certified, that's the price that is paid."

	This is exactly why my second message got posted.  Let me state the
position
	I'm addressing again.  I've been working in the capacity of an HP
for a bit
	more than two years.  I'm degreed a few times over.  My first the
closest
	B.S. I hold to engineering is one in physics, so if you check the
reg.'s,
	I'm not eligible for a P.E., regardless of the rest of my education,
or the
	effort to which I'm willing to go, since my B.S. is not in
engineering.  So
	no P.E. for me, no matter how good I am.  Having been out for only
two
	years, I'm a little shy of the ABHP time requirements, so I cannot
be a CHP,
	no matter how good I am.

	Let me be clear to everyone, since at least one person has a
misimpression
	of my meaning.  I only mean to point out that the point of view that
a quick
	glance at a resume for a few letters does people, albeit in a very
small
	demographic, in my position, who are competent but young, a
disservice, and
	I sincerely hope that HR departments everywhere wait until I've been
able to
	earn my five years, sit for part two, and stamp the letters on my
resume,
	otherwise my wife will be more than a little bit upset at having to
pay off
	student loans for me.  As I stated before, I have no problem with
the use of
	certifications as a 'first approximation' for knowledge of a
person's
	competence.  What I do have a problem with is the assumption that a
	thirty-second look at my resume, looking for one set of test results
could
	decide an awful lot for my life, given that I'm forbidden from
getting the
	needed letters for a little while.  Please, try to remember that I
am well
	into the books for my own day in ABHP court, so I buy the need for
everyone
	who cares to know that I could at some point take and pass (excuse
me for a
	short prayer) that test.  My problem is with the attitude that it's
ok to
	build a workforce which affects "public safety" on the basis of
three, or
	even five letters, no matter how quickly you have to hire contract
work.  If
	the issue is truly the safety of the unknowing masses, then maybe a
little
	more attention to the actual knowledge of the people involved is
warranted.

	One more time, I have no problem with tests to add letters behind
our names.
	I think they're fun, and I admit to a point useful to guage a
person's
	experience.  My point is that it takes more than any one metric to
identify
	a competent professional.  Also I admit, again, that my views are
prejudiced
	by the fact that because of my relative inexperience I cannot take
the test,
	making mine a personal comment, rather than a "state of the union"
on health
	physics.  My views (after all this typing) come down to two
questions.  What
	does the fact that I haven't passed a test I'm not allowed to take
tell you
	about my ability to protect public safety?  Does the fact that I
have
	(including an M.S. in nuclear engineering, so engineering is
represented) a
	B.S. in physics to work in "health physics" rather than one in
engineering,
	and thus can't be a P.E. because my B.S. isn't engineering, tell you
	anything about my ability to correctly label and contain outgoing
waste
	sources?  I think we'd all be well served to remember that safety IS
the
	goal, and that any one test, regardless of the rapidity with which a
	workforce must be hired, is not a defining characteristic.  I'm not
sure I
	know what the answer is, I just wish one of you people out there
reading
	this would convince the ABHP to let me go ahead and sit before
applications
	shrink down to one or two boxes to check.  Please, before anyone
else gets
	bent out of shape reading this, understand that I have meant any and
all of
	what I've posted today just as a reminder that there is a small
portion of
	the population out there to whom boiling down hiring practices to
less than
	a handfull of certifications might be unfair.  Of course, someone
who's been
	doing this twenty or fifty years, or whatever, is better to head up
a
	program to apply good industrial hygiene in this area than I am.
I'm at
	least smart enough to know what I don't know.  But I think that I
should be
	allowed to get the jobs I have to have held to be allowed to take
the test.
	That's all.  If new graduates, at whatever level, can't go get jobs
as HP's
	because everyone begins looking for cert.'s to discern quality from
it's
	lack, and they have to have been HP's to be certified, then after a
while
	there will be noone to be certified.  Besides, I don't LIKE being
part of
	the "price that's paid."  


	E. Neal Zapp
	NASA/JSC, Radiation Biology
	Bldg. 37, Rm. 167
	(281) 483-2244 (O)
	(713) 765-2193 (P)

	Any opinions expressed herein, or incorrect assertions, are
attributable
	only to me.  Not to you, not to him, not to her, not to them, not to
us, to
	me.  Noone else could possibly be this brain-dead without having the
plug
	pulled, so it must be me.




	
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