[ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara Does Work" ?!!

Thu Apr 20 15:32:53 CDT 2006

<< Cherry picking data to support your position has never improved your
credibility. >>

That's "Colonel Cherry" to you!

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf
Of John Jacobus
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:01 PM
To: howard long; jjcohen at prodigy.net; Michael Bohan; radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara Does Work" ?!!

Dr. Long,
The late Dr. Cameron's conclusions were debated and
argued many times.  He was not a trained
epidemiologist.  You are not a trained epidemiologist,
although you claim to have studied to be one.  Cherry
picking data to support your position has never
improved your credibility.  Experts in such work never
support his, or your, conclusions.  Move on with your
life.

As the Health Physic Society, the American Nuclear
Society, etc., have stated, there is no demonstration
effects to radiation below 100 mSv.  I have provided
you with numerous papers, which you refuse to
understand or accept.  

--- howard long <hflong at pacbell.net> wrote:

> "- studies of present nuclear workers have shown no
> increases in cancers."
>    
>   Indeed! Cameron showed DECREASE, recently
> published again by Sponsler.
>   Logic suggests, NOT that , "ALARA does work," but
> hormesis benefit from background radiation increased
>  to mountain state levels, at least.
>    
>   Jacobus'  logic perpetuates error, huge tax costs
> to actually deprive of "An Essential Trace Energy"
> (Cameron), - and regulators'  jobs. 
>    
>   ALARA kills.
> www.aps.org/units/fps/oct01/a5oct01.html 
>    
>   Howard Long
>   Jerry,
> I believe that the ALARA concept is based on
> minimizing unknown future risks. The solid cancers
> that was seen after such events as the radium dial
> painters and the bombings of Japan occurred years
> after the exposures. With ALARA, epidemiological
> studies of present nuclear workers have shown no
> increases in cancers. Maybe it really does work.
> 
> --- jjcohen at prodigy.net wrote:
> 
> > Michael,
> > I am an Industrial Hygienist (CIH), and I resent
> > your attempt to pin the
> > ALARA nonsense on Industrial Hygienists. ALARA is
> > strictly a Health Physics
> > invention, which IMHO was designed to justify the
> > application of absurdly
> > restrictive controls to operations involving
> > ionizing radiation.
> > Jerry Cohen
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Michael Bohan" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 3:13 PM
> > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose
> > 
> > 
> > > Hello Floyd and RadSafer's:
> > >
> > > In medicine, the conservative approach (of ALARA
> > for radiation) is
> > > usually NOT advisable. ALARA is specifically an
> > industrial hygiene
> > > practice that has been bastardized by some to
> > apply to realms it was
> > > never intended for.
> > >
> > > If there is a pregnant mother, who's been in a
> > serious car accident,
> > > the risk of having an undiagnosed condition that
> > results in immediate
> > > death to the mother and/or fetus, is real. The
> > theoretical risk of
> > > even a 10 rad dose to her and the fetus are a
> very
> > small concern in
> > > comparison. Even with a dose of 10 rad, the
> > theoretical risk to the
> > > fetus is about 1 in a thousand, and it might
> only
> > be expressed many
> > > years later. However, the mortality of mothers
> > and fetuses from
> > > serious car accidents and undiagnosed trauma, is
> > immediate and probably
> > > would lead to 10's if not 100's of
> > deaths/thousand, if modern
> > > diagnostic tests are withheld due to
> radiophobia. 
> > It should be
> > > remembered that ALARA is meant to keep
> > occupational workers well away
> > > from any risk at all, even theoretical ones.
> When
> > reality strikes, we
> > > need to use a different set of standards.
> > >
> > > ALARA does have a place in medicine. Medical
> > Physicists spend a lot of
> > > time and energy making sure that all hospital
> > equipment provides the
> > > best diagnostic information for the smallest
> > necessary dose. However,
> > > ALARA should never be used to deny a patient a
> > necessary diagnostic
> > > procedure.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Mike Bohan, RSO
> > > Yale-New Haven Hospital
> > > Radiological Physics
> > > 20 York St. - WWW 204
> > > New Haven, CT 06510
> > > Tele: (203) 688-2950
> > > Fax: (203) 688-8682
> > > Email: mike.bohan at yale.edu
> > >
> > > This message originates from Yale New Haven
> Health
> > System. The
> > > information contained in this message may be
> > privileged and
> > > confidential. If you are the intended recipient,
> > you must maintain this
> > > message in a secure and confidential manner. If
> > you are not the
> > > intended recipient, please notify the sender
> > immediately and destroy
> > > this message. Thank you.
> > >
> > > On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:32 PM,
> > radsafe-request at radlab.nl wrote:
> > >
> > > > I realize this. But taking the conservative
> > approach is always
> > > > advisable. Hence ALARA. The lack of set limits
> > is an issue which should
> > > > be addressed. We cannot continue to let the
> > medical world self-police.
> > > > They have proven time and time again that they
> > are prone to leaning to
> > > > one extreme or the other. The limit should
> > mirror occupational dose
> > > > except, of course in the case of limits
> > hindering treatment. All of
> > > > this
> > > > falls into the principals of ALARA in one way
> or
> > another.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++
> "A scientist's aim in a discussion with his
> colleagues is not to persuade, but to clarify." 
> Leo Szilard
> -- John
> John Jacobus, MS
> Certified Health Physicist
> e-mail: crispy_bird at yahoo.com
> 
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> 

+++++++++++++++++++
"A scientist's aim in a discussion with his colleagues is not to persuade,
but to clarify." 
Leo Szilard
-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com

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