[ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara Does Work" ?!!

Thu Apr 20 15:49:51 CDT 2006

Bob,
I certainly would not pick on you.  You are very
credible.

--- Robert Cherry <bobcherry at satx.rr.com> wrote:

> << Cherry picking data to support your position has
> never improved your
> credibility. >>
> 
> That's "Colonel Cherry" to you!
> 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On Behalf
> Of John Jacobus
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:01 PM
> To: howard long; jjcohen at prodigy.net; Michael Bohan;
> radsafe at radlab.nl
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose "Alara Does
> Work" ?!!
> 
> Dr. Long,
> The late Dr. Cameron's conclusions were debated and
> argued many times.  He was not a trained
> epidemiologist.  You are not a trained
> epidemiologist,
> although you claim to have studied to be one. 
> Cherry
> picking data to support your position has never
> improved your credibility.  Experts in such work
> never
> support his, or your, conclusions.  Move on with
> your
> life.
> 
> As the Health Physic Society, the American Nuclear
> Society, etc., have stated, there is no
> demonstration
> effects to radiation below 100 mSv.  I have provided
> you with numerous papers, which you refuse to
> understand or accept.  
> 
> --- howard long <hflong at pacbell.net> wrote:
> 
> > "- studies of present nuclear workers have shown
> no
> > increases in cancers."
> >    
> >   Indeed! Cameron showed DECREASE, recently
> > published again by Sponsler.
> >   Logic suggests, NOT that , "ALARA does work,"
> but
> > hormesis benefit from background radiation
> increased
> >  to mountain state levels, at least.
> >    
> >   Jacobus'  logic perpetuates error, huge tax
> costs
> > to actually deprive of "An Essential Trace Energy"
> > (Cameron), - and regulators'  jobs. 
> >    
> >   ALARA kills.
> > www.aps.org/units/fps/oct01/a5oct01.html 
> >    
> >   Howard Long
> >   Jerry,
> > I believe that the ALARA concept is based on
> > minimizing unknown future risks. The solid cancers
> > that was seen after such events as the radium dial
> > painters and the bombings of Japan occurred years
> > after the exposures. With ALARA, epidemiological
> > studies of present nuclear workers have shown no
> > increases in cancers. Maybe it really does work.
> > 
> > --- jjcohen at prodigy.net wrote:
> > 
> > > Michael,
> > > I am an Industrial Hygienist (CIH), and I resent
> > > your attempt to pin the
> > > ALARA nonsense on Industrial Hygienists. ALARA
> is
> > > strictly a Health Physics
> > > invention, which IMHO was designed to justify
> the
> > > application of absurdly
> > > restrictive controls to operations involving
> > > ionizing radiation.
> > > Jerry Cohen
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Michael Bohan" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 3:13 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] In utero dose
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > Hello Floyd and RadSafer's:
> > > >
> > > > In medicine, the conservative approach (of
> ALARA
> > > for radiation) is
> > > > usually NOT advisable. ALARA is specifically
> an
> > > industrial hygiene
> > > > practice that has been bastardized by some to
> > > apply to realms it was
> > > > never intended for.
> > > >
> > > > If there is a pregnant mother, who's been in a
> > > serious car accident,
> > > > the risk of having an undiagnosed condition
> that
> > > results in immediate
> > > > death to the mother and/or fetus, is real. The
> > > theoretical risk of
> > > > even a 10 rad dose to her and the fetus are a
> > very
> > > small concern in
> > > > comparison. Even with a dose of 10 rad, the
> > > theoretical risk to the
> > > > fetus is about 1 in a thousand, and it might
> > only
> > > be expressed many
> > > > years later. However, the mortality of mothers
> > > and fetuses from
> > > > serious car accidents and undiagnosed trauma,
> is
> > > immediate and probably
> > > > would lead to 10's if not 100's of
> > > deaths/thousand, if modern
> > > > diagnostic tests are withheld due to
> > radiophobia. 
> > > It should be
> > > > remembered that ALARA is meant to keep
> > > occupational workers well away
> > > > from any risk at all, even theoretical ones.
> > When
> > > reality strikes, we
> > > > need to use a different set of standards.
> > > >
> > > > ALARA does have a place in medicine. Medical
> > > Physicists spend a lot of
> > > > time and energy making sure that all hospital
> > > equipment provides the
> > > > best diagnostic information for the smallest
> > > necessary dose. However,
> > > > ALARA should never be used to deny a patient a
> > > necessary diagnostic
> > > > procedure.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Mike Bohan, RSO
> > > > Yale-New Haven Hospital
> > > > Radiological Physics
> > > > 20 York St. - WWW 204
> > > > New Haven, CT 06510
> > > > Tele: (203) 688-2950
> > > > Fax: (203) 688-8682
> > > > Email: mike.bohan at yale.edu
> > > >
> > > > This message originates from Yale New Haven
> > Health
> > > System. The
> > > > information contained in this message may be
> > > privileged and
> > > > confidential. If you are the intended
> recipient,
> > > you must maintain this
> > > > message in a secure and confidential manner.
> If
> > > you are not the
> > > > intended recipient, please notify the sender
> > > immediately and destroy
> > > > this message. Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:32 PM,
> > > radsafe-request at radlab.nl wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I realize this. But taking the conservative
> > > approach is always
> > > > > advisable. Hence ALARA. The lack of set
> limits
> > > is an issue which should
> > > > > be addressed. We cannot continue to let the
> > > medical world self-police.
> > > > > They have proven time and time again that
> they
> > > are prone to leaning to
> > > > > one extreme or the other. The limit should
> > > mirror occupational dose
> > > > > except, of course in the case of limits
> > > hindering treatment. All of
> > > > > this
> > > > > falls into the principals of ALARA in one
> way
> > or
> > > another.
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe
> > > mailing list
> 
=== message truncated ===

+++++++++++++++++++
"A scientist's aim in a discussion with his colleagues is not to persuade, but to clarify." 
Leo Szilard
-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com

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