AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] Letter: Homeopathy and Hormesis

[Rainer.Facius at dlr.de]

John:

 

1) A placebo effect is detected by comparing outcomes with and WITHOUT a causative agent, i.e., you observe an effect in the ABSENCE of an agent (like also in high potency homeopathy).

 

2) The hormetic effects which I have referred to are measured in the PRESENCE of a causative agent and usually with graded doses thereof. 

 

Hence - by definition, you cannot call a graded response to a graded dosage (e.g. hormesis) a placebo effect.

 

3) I agree that until the elucidation of the mechanisms you are entitled to question causation. 

 

4) I agree that some fraction of putative cures from medical drugs happen not because but in spite of the medication.

 

5) The recent work of Ina and Sakai has been mentioned many times the last 48 hours or so here on radsafe. I beg your pardon that I assumed wrongly that you too did take notice. Here are the references to these truly remarkable biological(!) results:

 

Ina Y and Sakai K.
Prolongation of life span associated with immunological modification by chronic low-dose-rate irradiation in MRL-lpr/lpr mice.
Radiation Research  2004  Feb ; 161 (2) : pp.168-173.

Ina Y, Tanooka H, Yamada T, Sakai K.
Suppression of thymic lymphoma induction by life-long low-dose-rate irradiation accompanied by immune activation in C57BL/6 mice.
Radiation Research  2005  Feb ; 163 (2) : pp.153-158.

Ina Y and Sakai K.
Further study of prolongation of life span associated with immunological modification by chronic low-dose-rate irradiation in MRL-lpr/lpr mice: Effects of whole-life irradiation.
Radiation Research  2005  Apr ; 163 (4) : pp.418-423.

Ina Y and Sakai K.
Activation of immunological network by chronic low-dose-rate irradiation in wild-type mouse strains: Analysis of immune cell populations and surface molecules.
International Journal of Radiation Biology  2005  Oct ; 81 (10) : pp.721-729.

 

Kind regards, Rainer


________________________________

Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl im Auftrag von John Jacobus
Gesendet: Do 09.02.2006 18:46
An: radsafe at radlab.nl
Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] Letter: Homeopathy and Hormesis 



Rainer,
And why do you think some of the reported hormetic
results are not due to placebo effects?  It is
possible that some medical drugs may not be effective
as claimed for the same reason, i.e., a positive
placebo response rather than a cure in some
individuals.  

Biology is not like physics.  Due to individual
variabilites, not everything treatment has the same
benefit.  As a scientist, I would assume that you do
not accept every report as true, whatever your belief.
 

Also, while you may know about the Ina and Sakai
article, others may not.  Please cite a source so that
I may find it if I wish to.

--- Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote:

> John:
>
> 
>
> Placebo 'effects' are curative outcomes in the
> absence of pharmacologically active substances like
> this indeed in many "high potency" homeopathic
> prescriptions is the case. Hormetic effects like
> those described most recently by Ina and Sakai are
> positive and dose-dependent outcomes in the presence
> of measurable agents like low dose-rate low LET
> radiation or the numerous 'toxins' compiled by
> Calabrese.
>
> 
>
> Note the decisive difference: ABSENCE vs. PRESENCE!
>
> 
>
> Kind regards, Rainer
>
>
>

+++++++++++++++++++
"It is not the job of public-affairs officers to alter, filter or
adjust engineering or scientific material produced by NASA's technical
staff."
MICHAEL D. GRIFFIN, NASA administrator.

-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com

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