AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] Letter: Homeopathy and Hormesis

[John Jacobus]

Rainer, 
I think that you understand part of what I am saying. 
However, you do not have to have a graded dose.  In
the use of pharmaceuticals is not unusual to see the
statement that the patients taking this treatment had
a 85% improvement as opposed to the 7% improvement in
a control group taking a placebo.

As for the reports you cite, I am not sure how the
response of animals compare to humans.  It is common
knowledge that not all effects or treatments performed
in animal research translate to humans.  In addition,
the lead to harm in humans.

--- Rainer.Facius at dlr.de wrote:

> John:
> 
>  
> 
> 1) A placebo effect is detected by comparing
> outcomes with and WITHOUT a causative agent, i.e.,
> you observe an effect in the ABSENCE of an agent
> (like also in high potency homeopathy).
> 
>  
> 
> 2) The hormetic effects which I have referred to are
> measured in the PRESENCE of a causative agent and
> usually with graded doses thereof. 
> 
>  
> 
> Hence - by definition, you cannot call a graded
> response to a graded dosage (e.g. hormesis) a
> placebo effect.
> 
>  
> 
> 3) I agree that until the elucidation of the
> mechanisms you are entitled to question causation. 
> 
>  
> 
> 4) I agree that some fraction of putative cures from
> medical drugs happen not because but in spite of the
> medication.
> 
>  
> 
> 5) The recent work of Ina and Sakai has been
> mentioned many times the last 48 hours or so here on
> radsafe. I beg your pardon that I assumed wrongly
> that you too did take notice. Here are the
> references to these truly remarkable biological(!)
> results:
> 
>  
> 
> Ina Y and Sakai K.
> Prolongation of life span associated with
> immunological modification by chronic low-dose-rate
> irradiation in MRL-lpr/lpr mice.
> Radiation Research  2004  Feb ; 161 (2) :
> pp.168-173.
> 
> Ina Y, Tanooka H, Yamada T, Sakai K.
> Suppression of thymic lymphoma induction by
> life-long low-dose-rate irradiation accompanied by
> immune activation in C57BL/6 mice.
> Radiation Research  2005  Feb ; 163 (2) :
> pp.153-158.
> 
> Ina Y and Sakai K.
> Further study of prolongation of life span
> associated with immunological modification by
> chronic low-dose-rate irradiation in MRL-lpr/lpr
> mice: Effects of whole-life irradiation.
> Radiation Research  2005  Apr ; 163 (4) :
> pp.418-423.
> 
> Ina Y and Sakai K.
> Activation of immunological network by chronic
> low-dose-rate irradiation in wild-type mouse
> strains: Analysis of immune cell populations and
> surface molecules.
> International Journal of Radiation Biology  2005 
> Oct ; 81 (10) : pp.721-729.
> 
>  
> 
> Kind regards, Rainer
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl im Auftrag von John
> Jacobus
> Gesendet: Do 09.02.2006 18:46
> An: radsafe at radlab.nl
> Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] Letter: Homeopathy and
> Hormesis 
> 
> 
> 
> Rainer,
> And why do you think some of the reported hormetic
> results are not due to placebo effects?  It is
> possible that some medical drugs may not be
> effective
> as claimed for the same reason, i.e., a positive
> placebo response rather than a cure in some
> individuals.  
> 
> 


+++++++++++++++++++
"It is not the job of public-affairs officers to alter, filter or 
adjust engineering or scientific material produced by NASA's technical 
staff."
MICHAEL D. GRIFFIN, NASA administrator.

-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com

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