[ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation Hormesis

[Flanigan, Floyd]

No Franz. I apologize if what I contributed came off as being of that ilk. I was not trying to be distasteful. I was commenting on the logistics involved in coming up with a study which would satisfy those who basically cannot be satisfied. We, as scientists, are sometimes presented with a request for "proof" which cannot be produced to the satisfaction of all. This is one of those situations in my opinion. The angle I was proposing to take was that, even though there already exists a vast volume of data which lends its self to the existence of a positive hormetic effect, those who choose to take the counter-point cannot be satisfied. 

As for the ALARA Principal, I believe in it and enforce it for a living. But the limits set forth for certain industries for such things as H3 release limits etc. are simply silly. When the EPA has a drinking water limit for H3 of 20,000 pico-curies/litre but the plant at which I work monitors and controls H3 releases to less than 1/100th of that limit due to "Technical Specification Commitments", and mind you, this ain't cheap to do, I tend to question what went into choosing these limits. And I can't help but think how silly it really is to vehemently protect the public against dose levels of truly non-consequential dose. The dose consequence of just about every dose limit I can think of are practically non-existent.

Sorry if I came off wrong.

Floyd



-----Original Message-----
From: Franz Schönhofer [mailto:franz.schoenhofer at chello.at] 
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:58 PM
To: Flanigan, Floyd; 'Brennan, Mike (DOH)'; radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation Hormesis

Floyd,

I am very surprised to read this contribution from you and even more that
nobody opposed it. "The moratorium of buying human babies and raising them
in a clinically controlled environment...." Is this your kind of fun just
after christmas? To me it is disgusting and reminds me to the
Nazi-experiments on babies, twins etc. in the concentration camps which I
visited during the last years in Poland. 

Please, Floyd, enlighten me that this contribution was out of topic and
unacceptable.

Best wishes,

Franz



Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
MinRat i.R.
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Wien/Vienna
AUSTRIA


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] Im Auftrag
von Flanigan, Floyd
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2007 20:05
An: Brennan, Mike (DOH); radsafe at radlab.nl
Betreff: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation Hormesis

Unfortunately, with the 35 some odd year period prior to some symptoms
expressing, and the moratorium on buying human babies and raising them
in a clinically controlled environment, definitive proof is hard to come
by. I am a firm supporter of Hormesis but with all of the other
environmental influences which can mask most true expressions of the
Hormetic Effect, I fear it will be a very long time before we see such a
study. I suppose it could be conducted on lab animals, but no matter
what evidence was produced, the nay-sayers would find their way back to
the fact that humans have a different physiology than the test subjects.
Hope may indeed spring eternal, but in this case it is in short supply.

Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.
Health Physics Supervisor

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl [mailto:radsafe-bounces at radlab.nl] On
Behalf Of Brennan, Mike (DOH)
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2007 12:02 PM
To: radsafe at radlab.nl
Subject: RE: [ RadSafe ] Re: Radiation Hormesis

"All science is either physics or stamp collecting."      Ernest.
Rutherford
   
I am reminded of the story of a zoologist, biologist, and physicist each
being asked to discuss the most important aspects of elephants.  The
zoologist discussed the social aspects of the herd how elephants
interact with their environment.  The biologist discussed the huge
amount of food the elephant consumes and processes in which it is
processed.  The physicist gets up, thinks for a minute, and starts,
"Assume the elephant is a sphere..."

On the topic of hormesis; I would love for someone to do some definitive
research, well designed and meticulously controlled, that would address
both the claims and the criticisms.  I will even allow as to how I would
LOVE to have hormesis confirmed, if for no other reason than the
entertainment value of watching my friends in the EPA struggle with
setting maximum and minimum desired radon exposure levels.  Sadly, I
have yet to see anything about such research being done.  The hormesis
papers I've seen show as much evidence of cherry picking as the
anti-(fill in the blank for whatever you don't like) papers.  

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