[ RadSafe ] Re: The Great Global Warming Swindle Swindle

Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com
Thu Mar 22 21:01:45 CDT 2007

March 22

On March 20 Steven Dapra (SD) wrote:

"This is a very informative website with a lot of useful and equally 
informative links. My thanks to Brian Riely for posting this link.  It is 
beginning to look like man-made "global warming" is a fraud and a hoax. It 
would seem that the earth is in a cycle of warming, and
that man-made chemicals have nothing to do with the current warming trend. 
When you find that the peddlers of global warming are covering up or 
ignoring the role of water vapor (which is 95% of the gases that cause 
warming) you can't help but be skeptical -- both of man-made global 
warming, and skeptical of the honesty of the people pushing it."

Jim Dukelow wrote:

"There are two technical terms for the argument that Steven Dapra is 
advancing here.  One is "straw man". You create a fictitious argument that 
none your debating opponents actually believes and then proceed to burn it 
down (up?). No educated climate scientist anywhere in the world is not 
aware that water vapor is responsible for most of the greenhouse gas 
warming effect that makes the earth's surface roughly 33 deg C warmer than 
it would be if we didn't have an atmosphere that contained greenhouse 
gases. Every general circulation model incorporates the greenhouse gas 
effect of water vapor. In fact, the warming predicted by GCM's is roughly 
twice what would be expected from the anthropogenic emission CO2, CH4, 
nitrous oxide, and CFCs, specifically because the warming that those gases 
produce will result in more water vapor in the atmosphere -- see the 
Clausius-Clapeyron equation.

         I am not advancing a straw man argument.  I did not know water 
vapor was a greenhouse gas until I began reading this thread and some of 
the linked material.  The popular press seems to have largely covered that 
up, or ignored it.  My comments about global warming have little to do with 
'educated climate scientists,' they are about the deceitful way in which it 
is presented to the general public.  (I am not creating any "fictitious 
argument" about 'educated climate scientists'.)

Jim Dukelow:
"The second technical term for the argument is "lie". I assume that Steven 
Dapra is just ignorantly passing along this particular lie being propagated 
by right-wing disinformationists that are well aware that it is a lie.


         I did not knowingly pass along a lie.  All you have done so far, 
Jim, is accuse the Hiebs of propounding claims that are "primarily 
disinformation," and claim that some argument is a "lie."  You have given 
no examples.  True, you have a link replying to some cherry-picked 
arguments.  Why don't you say something specific?

         Why are you saying these alleged "disinformationists" are on the 
right-wing?  How do you know what wing they occupy?  Thus far your 
allegation seems to be baseless.  Do you hope to accomplish any 
constructive end by hurling objurgations?

Steven Dapra
sjd at swcp.com

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