[ RadSafe ] Radon Daughters on People [was "Salsman warning"]

Mon Apr 12 13:26:17 CDT 2010

Depends on the situation.  I have worked with a couple of fish
hatcheries that use ground water with their eggs and small fry (it is
warmer and less likely to have bacteria, fungus, etc).  Even at only a
couple of hundred pCi/l in water, using a couple million gallons per
day, and bubbling air through the water to increase oxygen (and
incidentally strip out the radon) can bring radon in air levels to the
100+ pCi/l range.  What this means as a health hazard it an interesting
discussion, as almost none of the assumptions that went into the 4 pCi/l
as a residential Action Level apply in a hatchery.  

From: Andycgeo at aol.com [mailto:Andycgeo at aol.com] 
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:22 AM
To: hotgreenchile at gmail.com; Brennan, Mike (DOH);
radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Radon Daughters on People [was "Salsman
warning"]

I do not think that 1,500 pCi of radon/liter of water will raise the
background radiation significantly. Remember that only 50%-60% of the
radon is degassed from the water (hot shower) which is diluted in the
very large volume of air of the house. For all practical purposes,
domestic water of 10,000 pCi/L, may contribute about 

1 pCi/L in air. Radon in water at 1,500 pCi/L will raise the radon in
air by about 0.15 pCi/L

Andy George

In a message dated 4/12/2010 1:47:51 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
hotgreenchile at gmail.com writes:

	Hi Rick & Mike:

	The only time that I have seen radon levels as high as you
mention was
	either 1) Directly associated with uranium mineralization or 2)
Associated
	with faults and fractures in areas associated with elevated
levels of
	uranium minerals.  A third possibility is with waters that have
high
	concentrations of radon (e.g. the Alamosa Basin in Southern
Colorado) in
	which the average waters contain 1500 pCi/L Radon.  I can easily
imagine
	that taking a long shower with such water would raise the
background
	concentration in a house significantly.

	Placing that in context, the total alpha activity of waters in a
uranium
	deposit can be in excess of 1 million pCi/L.

	I used radon emanometry to locate major faults in Southern
Colorado when the
	surface expression was obscured by soils.  In this case, several
transects
	normal to the projected fault were used to identify its location
based on
	soil gas analysis and a portable radon emanometer with a high
degree of
	accuracy.

	Dan ii

	--
	Dan W McCarn, Geologist
	2867 A Fuego Sagrado
	Santa Fe, NM 87505
	+1-505-310-3922 (Mobile - New Mexico)
	HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email)

	-----Original Message-----
	From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
	[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
Brennan, Mike
	(DOH)
	Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 11:07
	To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
	Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Radon Daughters on People [was "Salsman
warning"]

	Hi, Rick.

	Here is a somewhat more fleshed out account:
	http://www.radontestkits.com/radon_history.html

	From the article:

	Meanwhile, the Watras house was found to have 4,400 picocuries
of radon
	per liter (pCi/L) of air in the cellar, 3,200 pCi/L in the
living room,
	and about 1,800 pCi/L in each bedroom. (To put these numbers
into
	context, having 4 picocuries of radon per liter of your indoor
air is
	roughly equivalent to receiving 200 chest x-rays per year.) 

	I have never heard that anyone in the Watras family has
developed lung
	cancer, and I am fairly sure that the word would have been
spread.
	Still, I doubt even people who dismiss radon programs as useless
would
	feel comfortable with 1,800 pCi/l in their bedroom.

	As for detecting radon daughters on clothing, it depends on the
	concentration, type of clothes, and instrument.  The situation I
have
	heard of it happening most often was "back in the day" at
Hanford.
	Polyester apparently develops a nice static charge, which
attracts the
	charged radon daughters floating in the air.  As I understand
it, it was
	a source of great humor for somebody being frisked out of a rad
area
	would have pants taken because of "possible contamination".  If,
after a
	couple of hours sealed in a plastic bag the levels dropped
considerably,
	they would get their clothes back, but their work wardrobe would
have
	been shifted to the denim end of the scale.  

	-----Original Message-----
	From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
	[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
Hansen,
	Richard
	Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 9:27 AM
	To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
	Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radon Daughters on People [was "Salsman
warning"]

	Roy,

	The incident you mention of the nuclear power plant worker
coming to
	work contaminated with radon daughter products is briefly
described on
	the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection web
site:

	The Saga of the Bureau of Radiation Protection
	...Another seminal event for the Bureau occurred on December 19,
1984.
	Notification was received from the chief raddie at Limerick that
a
	worker was coming to work contaminated. The contamination was
detected
	by a portal monitor. The contamination was natural. The utility
had the
	worker's home checked, and found extremely high concentrations
of radon
	there. The Limerick chief raddie reasoned correctly that the
problem was
	not a utility problem, but rather a state problem. The radon
story began
	with that phone call.
	In the early months of the radon project, attention was confined
to the
	Boyertown area. A field office was established in Gilbertsville.
By the
	end of 1985, the project included the entire Reading Prong and
adjacent
	areas. By late 1986, the program began to go statewide.
	http://www.dep.state.pa.us/brp/BRP_Info/BRP_History.htm

	I have a question for radsafe:

	What are some methods to use in the field to determine if low
levels of
	radiation detected on a person or clothing is due to radon
daughters
	rather than radioactive contamination from other sources?

	Two situations come to mind. First, during a law enforcement
	investigation of possible illegal use of radioactive material,
the
	persons involved (including the officers) may be checked for
radioactive
	contamination using handheld survey meters. 
	A second situation would be emergency response personnel
checking fellow
	responders and members of the public for contamination at the
scene of a
	potential incident involving radioactive material.

	Depending on the organization, the personnel may have access to
survey
	meters with GM pancake detector probes and NaI gamma detector
probes
	(such as 1-in. diameter by 1-inch long NaI detectors). Hand-held
	NaI-based radionuclide identification instruments (or RIIDs) may
be
	available. Some organizations also have alpha-beta scintillator
	contamination probes, but most probably will not. 

	Examples of this type of situation include training exercises
where
	radiation levels exceeded twice background levels on some of the
Tyvek
	suits worn by responders (especially during winter with low
humidity).
	Another possible example is workers initially thought to be
contaminated
	from a leaking sealed radioactive source because radiation
(actually
	from radon daughters) was detected coming from workers' hands,
clothes,
	and chairs.

	Rick Hansen
	Senior Scientist
	Counter Terrorism Operations Support Program
	National Security Technologies, LLC, for the U.S. Dept of Energy
	hansenrg at nv.doe.gov
	www.ctosnnsa.org

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