[ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation Exposures duringDesert storm

Fri Aug 27 19:27:49 CDT 2010

Aug. 27, 2010

         Comments interspersed.

Steven Dapra

At 09:37 PM 8/26/2010, blreider at aol.com wrote:

>Mike, perhaps the issue is the levels of dose? "Radiological 
>catastrophe" levels are not what we consider low level and the 
>studies I glanced at were looking into clinical levels of 
>radiation.  Radiaiton therapy doses do cause a chronic fatigue.  The 
>fatigue has been noted even when blood forming organs (bone marrow) 
>are not highly irradiated.  There is ongoing research into the 
>mechanisms, work in LA this past year has associated a specific 
>protein with this phenomenon in prostate cancer ad breast cancer 
>patient irradiation.

         According to the press release, the chronic fatigue 
Foundation "has also noted that CFS has been previously identified as 
a characteristic aftermath of radioecological catastrophe."

1)      Where was this noted?
2)      What is a "radioecological catastrophe"?  How is this 
expression defined, and who defined it?
3)      The press release refers to "low level radiation."   Same 
question as before:  How is this expression defined, and who defined it?

         I rather doubt that a "radioecological catastrophe" would 
release low level radiation.  True, radiation therapy doses cause 
fatigue, however are therapeutic doses low level rad?  I think 
not.  (I omitted the word "chronic" because we need a definition of 
chronic.  It means "marked by long duration or frequent 
recurrence".  How long is "long," and how frequent is 
"frequent"?  It's a moot point, because therapeutic doses are 
probably not low level.  If low level were to be defined as 
background radiation we should all be suffering from chronic fatigue 
syndrome.  Obviously such is not the case.

         What is the citation for the "work in LA this past year"?

>If you google the www, you will see all sorts of articles on the 
>cellular level effects of radiation on mitochondria, some 
>hypothecizing that there are possible "amplified" cellular effects 
>(possibly reversible) due to radiation not directly effecting the 
>DNA in the nucleus but affecting mitochondrial DNA.  It looked like 
>there are other chemical causes for the same molecular effects.  So 
>maybe the reporter didn't undestand or state things correctly, but I 
>didn't get the impression it was a hoax.

         "Hypothesizing" doesn't get us anywhere.  No one is saying 
or suggesting anything is a "hoax."  The Foundation news release says 
the findings will be published in the Foundation newsletter.  This is 
probably not a peer-reviewed publication.

         I am not a radiobiologist either.  I don't even portray one 
on television.  I find the Foundation's evidence to be lacking, and 
the lines of argumentation to be weak.

Steven Dapra

>Disclaimer:  I am not a radiobiologist, I only play one on TV.  This 
>is not my field so I am a total lay-person.  Perhaps one of the 
>RadSafe RadBio folk can speak up.
>
>Barbara Reider, CHP
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steven Dapra <sjd at swcp.com>
>To: radsafe <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
>Sent: Thu, Aug 26, 2010 8:46 pm
>Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation 
>Exposures duringDesert storm
>
>
>Aug. 26
>          According to the press release about this on the NCF
>ebsite, "The Foundation has also noted that CFS [chronic fatigue
>yndrome] has been previously identified as a characteristic
>ftermath of radioecological catastrophe. A lengthier article
>ncluding references will be in the fall edition of the newsletter."
>          The newsletter would be that of the National Chronic Fatigue
>yndrome Foundation.
>          Elsewhere in this thread someone asked about the Australian
>nd Irish research.  The press release says this:  "The Foundation's
>eal revelation came when our staff linked specific research on
>itochondrial DNA deletions, first published by Australian scientists
>n 1995, to work published by scientists in Ireland in 2005."
>          The link to the press release is
>http://www.ncf-net.org/PressReleases.htm#nal>.
>          Other than the press release, there appears to be nothing on
>he website about the supposed connection between Chronic Fatigue
>yndrome and rad exposure.
>          This link is to the research being funded by the NCF.
>         <http://www.ncf-net.org/NCFresearch.htm>.
>
>teven Dapra
>
>t 05:39 PM 8/25/2010, Brennan, Mike  (DOH) wrote:
>Is this a joke?
>
>"They had identified exactly the same unique mitochondria
>characteristics to be due to the direct effects of low level radiation
>exposure."
>
>A random event such as radiation interaction inside a cell is going to
>produce "exactly" the same characteristic in mitochondria?  Do they have
>an idea of how that might happen?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Helbig
>Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:06 PM
>To: Radsafe
>Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation Exposures
>duringDesert storm
>
>
>National CFIDS Foundation (NCF) Announces Link between Chronic Fatigue
>Syndrome and Low Level Radiation Exposure
>
>
>NEEDHAM, Mass., Aug. 20 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The National CFIDS
>Foundation Inc., of Needham Mass, has announced its formal disease model
>for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) also known as Chronic Fatigue Immune
>Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS) as well as Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
>According to the NCF, a subgroup of patients with CFS fit a unique
>disease profile based on a model for a radioactive toxin.
>
>Since starting its formal research grant program, the NCF has provided
>one million dollars in grant funding to pursue its own directed research to
>study ciguatera toxicology; a critical immune protein known as STAT-1;
>and myelodysplasia as well as myeloid leukemia -- all of which have been
>identified in the patient subgroup.
>
>According to Alan Cocchetto, Medical Director, "Our research suggested
>that a relationship existed between ciguatera poisoning, STAT-1 and
>myelodysplasia as well as leukemia. Early evidence also suggested that
>some type of catalyst was potentially involved in this disease process.
>Because of some very unique characteristics identified during the 
>course of our
>research, what emerged was the potential for low level radiation to act
>as the catalyst to evoke a specific response that fit the profile for our
>patients. We believe this to be very important since radiation not only
>adversely impacts STAT-1 but it has also been found to cause
>myelodysplasia as well as myeloid leukemia, the very things we have 
>been studying. In
>addition, the bystander effects associated with low level radiation
>exposure cause real problems at the cellular level and this unfortunately
>translates into an increased risk for cancer."
>
>Gail Kansky, President, stated, "The Foundation's real revelation came
>when our staff linked specific research on mitochondrial DNA deletions, first
>published by Australian scientists in 1995, to work published by
>scientists in Ireland in 2005. They had identified exactly the same unique
>mitochondria characteristics to be due to the direct effects of low 
>level radiation
>exposure. This same defect had been mirrored in CFS but it hadn't been
>classified for ten years. Because this fits our disease model, we are
>pursuing additional research studies. There is no doubt in my mind that
>we have found several key pieces to this disease puzzle tied to our patient
>group." Furthermore, Kansky added "What is especially discouraging is
>that the global implications here could prove to be staggering!" has 
>also noted that CFS has been previously identified as
>a characteristic aftermath of radioecological catastrophe.
>
>The Foundation has also noted that CFS has been previously identified as
>a characteristic aftermath of radioecological catastrophe. A lengthier
>article including references will be in the fall edition of the newsletter.
>
>Founded in 1997, the goals of the NCF are to help fund medical research
>to find a cause, expedite treatments and eventually a cure for CFIDS/ME.
>The NCF is funded solely by individual contributions. Additional information
>can be found on the Foundation's website at  <http://www.ncf-net.org>
>www.ncf-net.org or in The National Forum quarterly newsletter. The NCF
>can be reached by phone at 781-449-3535.

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