[ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation Exposures duringDesert storm

Sat Aug 28 07:30:20 CDT 2010

Steve, My coments are embedded.

Barbara Reider, CHP

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Dapra <sjd at swcp.com>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>; radsafe <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Fri, Aug 27, 2010 8:28 pm
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation Exposures duringDesert storm

Aug. 27, 2010
         Comments interspersed.
Steven Dapra

t 09:37 PM 8/26/2010, blreider at aol.com wrote:
>Mike, perhaps the issue is the levels of dose? "Radiological 
catastrophe" levels are not what we consider low level and the 
studies I glanced at were looking into clinical levels of 
radiation.  Radiaiton therapy doses do cause a chronic fatigue.  The 
fatigue has been noted even when blood forming organs (bone marrow) 
are not highly irradiated.  There is ongoing research into the 
mechanisms, work in LA this past year has associated a specific 
protein with this phenomenon in prostate cancer ad breast cancer 
patient irradiation.
         According to the press release, the chronic fatigue 
oundation "has also noted that CFS has been previously identified as 
 characteristic aftermath of radioecological catastrophe."
1)      Where was this noted?
)      What is a "radioecological catastrophe"?  How is this 
xpression defined, and who defined it?
)      The press release refers to "low level radiation."   Same 
uestion as before:  How is this expression defined, and who defined it?
teve, I agree with your questions.  Your questions 2&3 are in different form  
in my comments. I don't think you can expect an internet press release
to necessarily cite papers (question No. 1) although it would be nice.  
Nevertheless the comments that exposure to radiation can cause fatigue and that 
one phenomenon seen is a change in mitochondrial function are indeed what recent 
data has shown. I also agree that the author seems confused about levels of radiation.
I am not sure they meant that rad causes all chronic fatigue or if they meant that 
rad fatigue has similar mechanisms.

        I rather doubt that a "radioecological catastrophe" would 
elease low level radiation.  True, radiation therapy doses cause 
atigue, however are therapeutic doses low level rad?  I think 
ot.  (I omitted the word "chronic" because we need a definition of 
hronic.  It means "marked by long duration or frequent 
ecurrence".  How long is "long," and how frequent is 
frequent"?  It's a moot point, because therapeutic doses are 
robably not low level.  If low level were to be defined as 
ackground radiation we should all be suffering from chronic fatigue 
yndrome.  Obviously such is not the case.
         What is the citation for the "work in LA this past year"?
awd, now I have to dig up articles I have read months ago. 
OK, here's an article about rad faigue I read a while back.
 The research was s=initiated by a psychiatrist who noted fatigue in her cancer patients.
ttp://jco.ascopubs.org/content/23/33/8280.full
You can find allsorts of articles about radiation and fatigue, radiation and mitochondrial function on the internet.
>If you google the www, you will see all sorts of articles on the 
cellular level effects of radiation on mitochondria, some 
hypothecizing that there are possible "amplified" cellular effects 
(possibly reversible) due to radiation not directly effecting the 
DNA in the nucleus but affecting mitochondrial DNA.  It looked like 
there are other chemical causes for the same molecular effects.  So 
maybe the reporter didn't undestand or state things correctly, but I 
didn't get the impression it was a hoax.
         "Hypothesizing" doesn't get us anywhere.  No one is saying 
r suggesting anything is a "hoax." Mike had commented that this might be a joke. 
Hypothecizing is one of the starting points of scienific investigation. 
The Foundation news release says 
he findings will be published in the Foundation newsletter.  This is 
robably not a peer-reviewed publication.
         I am not a radiobiologist either.  I don't even portray one 
n television.  I find the Foundation's evidence to be lacking, and 
he lines of argumentation to be weak. Ageed.
Steven Dapra

Disclaimer:  I am not a radiobiologist, I only play one on TV.  This 
is not my field so I am a total lay-person.  Perhaps one of the 
RadSafe RadBio folk can speak up.

Barbara Reider, CHP

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Dapra <sjd at swcp.com>
To: radsafe <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Thu, Aug 26, 2010 8:46 pm
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation 
Exposures duringDesert storm

Aug. 26
          According to the press release about this on the NCF
ebsite, "The Foundation has also noted that CFS [chronic fatigue
yndrome] has been previously identified as a characteristic
ftermath of radioecological catastrophe. A lengthier article
ncluding references will be in the fall edition of the newsletter."
          The newsletter would be that of the National Chronic Fatigue
yndrome Foundation.
          Elsewhere in this thread someone asked about the Australian
nd Irish research.  The press release says this:  "The Foundation's
eal revelation came when our staff linked specific research on
itochondrial DNA deletions, first published by Australian scientists
n 1995, to work published by scientists in Ireland in 2005."
          The link to the press release is
http://www.ncf-net.org/PressReleases.htm#nal>.
          Other than the press release, there appears to be nothing on
he website about the supposed connection between Chronic Fatigue
yndrome and rad exposure.
          This link is to the research being funded by the NCF.
         <http://www.ncf-net.org/NCFresearch.htm>.

teven Dapra

t 05:39 PM 8/25/2010, Brennan, Mike  (DOH) wrote:
Is this a joke?

"They had identified exactly the same unique mitochondria
characteristics to be due to the direct effects of low level radiation
exposure."

A random event such as radiation interaction inside a cell is going to
produce "exactly" the same characteristic in mitochondria?  Do they have
an idea of how that might happen?

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Roger Helbig
Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 3:06 PM
To: Radsafe
Subject: [ RadSafe ] FW: [gulflink] Low Level Radiation Exposures
duringDesert storm

National CFIDS Foundation (NCF) Announces Link between Chronic Fatigue
Syndrome and Low Level Radiation Exposure

NEEDHAM, Mass., Aug. 20 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The National CFIDS
Foundation Inc., of Needham Mass, has announced its formal disease model
for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) also known as Chronic Fatigue Immune
Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS) as well as Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
According to the NCF, a subgroup of patients with CFS fit a unique
disease profile based on a model for a radioactive toxin.

Since starting its formal research grant program, the NCF has provided
one million dollars in grant funding to pursue its own directed research to
study ciguatera toxicology; a critical immune protein known as STAT-1;
and myelodysplasia as well as myeloid leukemia -- all of which have been
identified in the patient subgroup.

According to Alan Cocchetto, Medical Director, "Our research suggested
that a relationship existed between ciguatera poisoning, STAT-1 and
myelodysplasia as well as leukemia. Early evidence also suggested that
some type of catalyst was potentially involved in this disease process.
Because of some very unique characteristics identified during the 
course of our
research, what emerged was the potential for low level radiation to act
as the catalyst to evoke a specific response that fit the profile for our
patients. We believe this to be very important since radiation not only
adversely impacts STAT-1 but it has also been found to cause
myelodysplasia as well as myeloid leukemia, the very things we have 
been studying. In
addition, the bystander effects associated with low level radiation
exposure cause real problems at the cellular level and this unfortunately
translates into an increased risk for cancer."

Gail Kansky, President, stated, "The Foundation's real revelation came
when our staff linked specific research on mitochondrial DNA deletions, first
published by Australian scientists in 1995, to work published by
scientists in Ireland in 2005. They had identified exactly the same unique
mitochondria characteristics to be due to the direct effects of low 
level radiation
exposure. This same defect had been mirrored in CFS but it hadn't been
classified for ten years. Because this fits our disease model, we are
pursuing additional research studies. There is no doubt in my mind that
we have found several key pieces to this disease puzzle tied to our patient
group." Furthermore, Kansky added "What is especially discouraging is
that the global implications here could prove to be staggering!" has 
also noted that CFS has been previously identified as
a characteristic aftermath of radioecological catastrophe.

The Foundation has also noted that CFS has been previously identified as
a characteristic aftermath of radioecological catastrophe. A lengthier
article including references will be in the fall edition of the newsletter.

Founded in 1997, the goals of the NCF are to help fund medical research
to find a cause, expedite treatments and eventually a cure for CFIDS/ME.
The NCF is funded solely by individual contributions. Additional information
can be found on the Foundation's website at  <http://www.ncf-net.org>
www.ncf-net.org or in The National Forum quarterly newsletter. The NCF
can be reached by phone at 781-449-3535.
[edit]
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