[ RadSafe ] Radfear - Airport Body Scanners

[Conklin, Al (DOH)]

Pardon me for getting in the middle of this discussion, but as I read the notes, it was my impression that everyone was simply stating what was reported, not necessarily the statistics or facts. (Although Colette Tremblay gives a good reference of the report). I've seen lots of reports of these intentional abortions all over the internet and I think it's of interest, but I wouldn't want to say how accurate the report may be. The fact that it is reported is of interest to us though because, even if only partly true, it's indicative of the radiation phobia that's out there. Not that we don't already know about it.

Al Conklin
Lead Trainer and Health Physicist
Radiological Emergency Preparedness Section
Office of Radiation Protection
Department of Health
office: 360-236-3261
cell: 360-239-1237
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Franz Schönhofer
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:42 AM
To: 'Larry Addis'; HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net
Cc: pollycove at comcast.net; radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Radfear - Airport Body Scanners

Larry,

Thank you for this comment - however your source of information seems to me
to be very close to "hearsay" - where are the confirmed statistics, the
corroborated data?

I moreover cannot support the claim, that "people in Europe were not
informed of the ......."

A retired VP and General Manager of GE Nuclear Energy is in my opinion not
at all an authority in radiation protection and an expert on the Chernobyl
accident. How can you dare to put him forward as a proof for whatever
opinion? 

I still have not received any sound statistical data - only hearsay!!!!

Franz

Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
MinRat i.R.
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Wien/Vienna
AUSTRIA


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Larry Addis [mailto:ajess at clemson.edu] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. März 2010 19:49
An: HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net; Franz Schönhofer
Cc: pollycove at comcast.net; radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Radfear - Airport Body Scanners


Below is one person who stated a number.  Don't know where he got it.  I 
would assume there were "baby deaths" that would have occurred irrespective 
of Chernobyl - don't know how one would make the differentiation as to what 
the cause/reason of the "baby death" was. This would be a very suspect 
statistic in my view.

Retired VP and General Manager of GE Nuclear Energy, Bertram Wolf, reports 
that there were "some 40 deaths in the due to nuclear radiation from the 
(Chernobyl) accident. But there were some 50,000 baby deaths in Europe due 
to abortions where mothers who feared the effects of the radiation, from 
Chernobyl." And "Clearly, the people in Europe were not informed of the 
negligible (maybe healthy) effects of low radiation levels."



Dr. Bertram Wolf:

In 1987 he was appointed a Vice President of GE and Manager of its Nuclear 
Energy Division.  He is presently an independent consultant in the fields of

business, energy, and nuclear energy.  Dr. Wolfe was elected to the National

Academy of Engineering in 1980.  He was elected President of the American 
Nuclear Society in 1986-7; was the recipient of the Walter Zinn technical 
accomplishment award in 1990; was honored with the Henry DeWolf Smyth 
nuclear statesman award in 1992; and was presented with the Tommy Thompson 
Nuclear Safety Award in 1997. He is a fellow of the American Nuclear 
Society.  Dr. Wolfe received a BA in physics from Princeton University and a

Ph.d. in nuclear physics from Cornell University.

LA
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net>
To: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
Cc: <pollycove at comcast.net>; <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 12:33 PM
Subject: [ RadSafe ] Radfear - Airport Body Scanners


>
>
>
> Franz, perhaps some Radsafer who was close to the Chernobyl investigation
>
> can recall where the widely speculated "100,000+ abortions" appeared.
>
> I confess to not having a reference (the reason I wrote, "As I 
> remember -")
>
> Such info would be hard to gather reliably because most women having 
> abortions keep it private.
>
>
>
> Do you recall the panic, irrational food recommendations and other radfear

> actions of the time, all over N. Europe? Now, even the thyroid cancer 
> increase is questioned by the TYPES not being as expected if there were an

> increase.
>
> It would take me some time to locate that reference, which also seemed so 
> reasonable when read, I decided NOT to usually advise stocking ssKI.
> Does anyone recall that recent study?
>
> Howard Long
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
> To: "HOWARD LONG" <HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net>
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu, "Ed Hiserodt" <hise at sbcglobal.net>, 
> pollycove at comcast.net, edmond0033 at comcast.net
> Sent: Tuesday, March 9, 2010 5:29:54 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: AW: AW: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
>
>
>
> Dear Howard,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the clarification on "reproduction", but you did not answer 
> my question where from you have "information" about the abortion numbers. 
> Now you even put
>
> a number of hundreds of thousands in your mail! I have been extremely 
> involved in the aftermath of Chernobyl not only in Austria, but also in 
> international organisations like the IAEA and the WHO, but I never came 
> across any numbers of enhanced abortion statistics. Do you rely on hearsay

> of militant antinuclear groups or sensation seeking "journalists"? "Only 
> bad news are good news."
>
>
>
> Simply said: The exposure of mothers-to-be was in Europe within the range 
> of what is originating from natural sources in large parts of Europe on 
> granitic bedrock.
>
>
>
> So what is your source?
>
>
>
> Best wishes and greetings!
>
>
>
> Franz
>
>
>
>
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
>
> MinRat i.R.
>
> Habicherg. 31/7
>
> A-1160 Wien/Vienna
>
> AUSTRIA
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
> Von: HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net [mailto:HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net]
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. März 2010 01:48
> An: Franz Schönhofer
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu; Ed Hiserodt; pollycove at comcast.net; 
> edmond0033 at comcast.net
> Betreff: Re: AW: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
>
>
>
> Correct, Franz.
>
> I meant reproduction of <2 children/ couple, a non-reproducing birthrate
>
> that has even Putin pushing it.
>
> The Chernobyl abortion panic, as I remember, involved hundreds of 
> thousands of abortions by exposed European mothers-to-be because of 
> radfear -
>
> despite the noble efforts of scientists like yourself.
>
>
>
> Pollycove's careful experimental science is well known to many Radsafers .
>
> Some can be viewed through ddponline.org
>
>
>
> Howard Long
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
> To: "HOWARD LONG" <HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net>, edmond0033 at comcast.net
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu, "Ed Hiserodt" <hise at sbcglobal.net>, 
> pollycove at comcast.net
> Sent: Monday, March 8, 2010 12:41:32 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: AW: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
> Howard,
>
>
>
> I am sure that I have a rather good command of English, so I more than 
> wonder, what you write. What do you mean by "European failure to 
> reproduce... much<2/ person"??? (This would make four childen per couple???)

> Where do you get these numbers from? Could you imagine that birthcontrol 
> is in developed countries a matter of living standard? (BTW I have three 
> "children", grown up in the mean time.) Where do you take this idiotic 
> claim of "Chernobyl abortion panic"??? You seem to read to many 
> antinuclear propaganda!!! There do not exist any statistics which would 
> indicate a rise in abortions. I remember that I gave at that time an 
> interview on the Austrian Radio clearly stating that it would be 
> irresponsible and unjustifiable to seek abortion and that the health risks

> (not to talk about psychical impacts) of an abortion would be by far 
> higher than any theoretically and statistically calculated damage.
>
>
>
> Your Pollycove - if he is the source of the above mentioned nonsense - 
> could probably make a better "research" than he did for your "UCSF Medical

> Class" for the money he sure has received. Some "Hardliners" (Gary!) will 
> for sure use this comment to pin me down as an "anti-American agitator". I

> have high estimate for Ed Baratta, whom I met many years ago at RADCHEM in

> Marianske Lazne in the Northern Czech Republic and whom I hope to meet at 
> the next one this April again.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Franz
>
>
>
>
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
>
> MinRat i.R.
>
> Habicherg. 31/7
>
> A-1160 Wien/Vienna
>
> AUSTRIA
>
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
> Von: HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net [mailto:HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net]
> Gesendet: Montag, 08. März 2010 19:50
> An: edmond0033 at comcast.net
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu; Ed Hiserodt; Franz Schönhofer; 
> pollycove at comcast.net
> Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
>
>
>
> Should European failure to reproduce (birth rates much < 2/person),
>
> aggravated by fatal fears like the Chernobyl abortion panic,
>
> concern both health physicists and family doctors?
>
> Ed's anectodal Prologue (summarized below) could enlighten the ignorant.
>
>
>
> Myron Pollycove, formerly of the US Nuclear regulatory Commission,
>
> enlightened our UCSF Medical class of '50, 5 years ago (at my behest)
>
> about his research in hormesis. What will he be able to report
>
> this May about progress with either public or health physicists'
>
> comprehension of the benefit of 1 to 10 rad/year?
>
>
>
> Howard Long
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: edmond0033 at comcast.net
> To: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu, "HOWARD LONG" <HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net>, 
> "Ed Hiserodt" <hise at sbcglobal.net>
> Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 2:27:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
>
> Franz:
>
>
>
> I agree with you. There is too much 'Big Brother'. Imagine if anyone in 
> Radsafe suggested it would be fine if someone should be exposed to 
> 'deadly' radiaton for any reason whatsoever. Perish the thought. Hopefully

> anyone in Radsafe doesn't get picked as a possible terrorist for 
> expressing their opinion.
>
>
>
> Ed Baratta
>
>
>
> edmond0033 at comcast.net
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
> To: "Franz Schönhofer" <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>, "HOWARD LONG" 
> <HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net>, "Ed Hiserodt" <hise at sbcglobal.net>
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 12:49:34 PM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
> RADSAFERs,
>
> I want to add for clarification, that I am by far not afraid of any
> radiation exposure (why should I!), but I oppose the trend to cut down the
> privacy of people by forcing them to parade "naked" in front of some
> whatever persons and however these pictures deleted later on. This is
> against any human dignity.
>
> What I understand least of all, is that this humiliating concept 
> originated
> from the USA - the "land of the free", the land claiming to be a spearhead
> to indiviudual rights. Come on, don't tell me about "bla, bla, bla". It is

> a
> political concept, it is discrimination of foreigners. Having been dozens 
> of
> times in the USA I do not really plan to visit the USA again within the 
> next
> few years. I have the feeling that I am not welcome unless I can prove 
> that
> I am not a Taliban or any other islamic organisation etc. I suppose that
> after sending this message I am registered in the USA because of using
> "Taliban".
>
> Every scientist is welcome to Austria by me and the other authorities
> without having to parade at a naked-scanner at the Vienna Airport. I 
> cannot
> pay any costs for visiting!
>
> Seriously: I had several participants of RADSAFE already as guests in 
> Vienna
> and I think we mutually enjoyed the guided VIP tour I provided. I 
> encourage
> everybody to contact me for a visit, though I am most of the time not in
> Vienna.
>
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
> MinRat i.R.
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Wien/Vienna
> AUSTRIA
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
> Von: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] Im Auftrag von Franz 
> Schönhofer
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 07. März 2010 20:02
> An: HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net; 'Ed Hiserodt'
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
> RADSAFErs
>
> Please help me to understand, why we have at RADSAFE to deal with all kind
> of nonsensical pseudo-radiation protectional rubbish.
>
> Howard, I would recommend that you keep to your profession of (as far as I
> understand) family doctor.
>
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD
> MinRat i.R.
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Wien/Vienna
> AUSTRIA
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- 
> Von: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] Im Auftrag von
> HOWARD.LONG at comcast.net
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 07. März 2010 18:45
> An: Ed Hiserodt
> Cc: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Betreff: Re: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
> "UNDEREXPOSED - What if Radiation Is Actually GOOD for You",
> Ed Hiserodt's paperback, is on my waiting room table, and well-thumbed.
>
> The Prologue is riveting (in brief):
> " Radiation can be dangerous.
> So can ignorance.
> X-rays for wrist fracture scared a woman into having an abortion,
> to prevent the 'likelihood of a deformed child'
>
> [- ignorant of 200 FEWER deformities in Taiwan apts
>
> where 4cSv over 10years Chen, Luan, J Am Phys & Surg 13/1/Spring '08].
>
> A health physicist estimated the increased radiation as less
> than from a coast to coast flight. -
> I wonder what my niece or nephew would have been like"
>
> Publicize your engineering analysis, Ed!
> Howard Long, family doctor
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed Hiserodt" <hise at sbcglobal.net>
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Sent: Sunday, March 7, 2010 8:36:26 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Airport Body Scanners
>
> I recently received this email from a friend who thinks that I know
> something about radiation since I wrote a book on the beneficial effects 
> of
> LLR. Hey, when did writing on a subject and having any knowledge of it
> become synonymous? (Remember Al Gore?) Anyway here is his question. Any
> comments on it would be appreciated.
>
> "Regarding the virtual strip-search machines that will be appearing at
> airports across the country, how much radiation do they actually release 
> and
>
> how does this compare to the radiation we are normally exposed to anyway?
> How dangerous are these machines, if at all, for someone who does a lot of
> flying? I understand that there are two technologies the TSA uses to peer
> through clothing:
>
> "One uses millimeter waves - does this involve any radiation; is it
> completely safe?
> "The other is the backscatter X-ray."
>
> Ed Hiserodt
> Maumelle, AR
> 501 258 2571
>
>
>
>
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