[ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind

Fri Oct 15 23:36:06 CDT 2010

Doug,
I like Franz argument that hydrocarbonds are better used for products and nuclear for energy.

Howard Long 

On Oct 15, 2010, at 9:00 PM, Doug Aitken <jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com> wrote:

> Jerry:
> First, I am not a climatologist. And I made no claim of connection. I also
> said I am skeptical. But I keep an open mind. Which, as Mike mentioned, is a
> good idea. 
> As for the global environment assimilating the "nasty stuff", I would say
> that perhaps it can, but to the detriment of all living creatures. Perhaps a
> walk along any shoreline will convince you? The amount of man-made garbage
> should help convince you we can do better. I suppose the Gulf of Mexico will
> recover eventually from the oil spill. But the "dead zone" caused by
> fertilizer runoff via the Mississippi should be seen as a fair indication
> that nature may have difficulty rebounding from man's detriment. And surely
> the health effects of industrial pollutants should give us reason to do
> better? 
> And relying on the hope that the global environment can rebound from our
> detrimental activities is a pretty negative attitude.
> 
> I have worked all my life in the oil industry. And seen first-hand the
> effects of the poor environmental practices of the past, where drilling
> waste was casually dumped, oil spills left to "self-remediate" and oil
> extraction causing massive subsidence (have a look at the East coast of Lake
> Maracaibo for a fine example). However, this industry currently has a very
> different attitude towards the environment and makes  major efforts to limit
> pollution (BP's recent fiasco notwithstanding). But they are still seen as a
> dirty industry... But little is said of the pollution caused by
> agro-business's excessive use of fertilizers and pesticides? Most would
> agree that the net impact of nuclear power is far less than coal power. But
> the lobbies keep that rolling along. 
> 
> I am not offering any solutions to the environmental problems of the world,
> as I am in no way qualified to do so. Nor can I offer any idea of what can
> be considered cost-effective. And any effective action on a large scale will
> be biased by political interests, with distortion of priorities.
> 
> But, as a relative layman, I do feel we can do better. And I am pretty sure
> that you do too.
> 
> Regards
> Doug 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Jerry Cohen
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 6:06 PM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind
> 
> Doug,
> Your comments raise 3 questions:
> 
> 1-  Is there reason to believe that "evidence of global climate change" is
> not attributable to the current phase of cyclical climate change?
> 2- Is it possible that the global environment could assimilate whatever
> man-made  "nasty stuff" is emitted without significant deterioration?,and
> 3-When you suggest that "we can do better", I wonder ,how can it be
> determined when things are good enough and any further improvement  is
> simply not cost-effective? How do we know that we have not already reached
> that point?
> 
> Jerry Cohen
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Doug Aitken <jdaitken at sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com>
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 3:32:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind
> 
> Every so often, we seem to get into this "discussion" where some members
> make rather strong statements about the "global warming" issue (note I don't
> say "scam", phony science, etc).
> 
> I am skeptical regarding the actual cause being man-made, although it would
> seem reasonable to say that (1) evidence of global climate change cannot be
> reasonably denied - from retreating glaciers to regional temperature
> changes, rainfall, etc... and (2) man is spewing larger than ever quantities
> of nasty stuff into the atmosphere and water (to the obvious detriment to
> all living creatures , cutting vast swathes of forest and using our natural
> resources with little thought to the future.
> 
> So it would seem to me that any effort to control these human excesses would
> benefit all of us. I am not a fanatical green, but certainly do think that
> we can do better, whether or not it would impact climate....
> 
> Regards
> 
> Doug Aitken
> QHSE Advisor, D&M Operations Support
> Schlumberger,
> Drilling & Measurements HQ,
> 300 Schlumberger Drive, MD15,
> Sugar Land, Texas 77478
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Edmond Baratta
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:15 PM
> To: Jerry Cohen; The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
> Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind
> 
> Those who are for the new 'religion' of Global Warming are using it to make
> a profit, i.e. Gore, and the Governments who wishes to make our lives
> miserable.  I can't believe that the Government is sponsoring the mercury
> (Hg) laden light bulbs.  Previously, they forbade the fluorescent lights
> that  contained beryllium (Be).
> 
> Ed Baratta
> 
> edmond0033 at comcast.net
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Jerry Cohen" <jjc105 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:56 PM
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" 
> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Keeping an open mind
> 
>> Mike,
>> Of course, you are correct. The climate is changing, but hasn't that 
>> always been the case? Historic evidence shows that the climate is 
>> cyclical in nature and the earth has continually alternated between 
>> "ice ages" and tropical periods.
>> Dr.
>> Fred Singer, has estimated that these cycles last about 1500 years, 
>> and currently increasing global temperatures simply indicate that we 
>> are predictably in an upward phase. In time, this trend will reverse, 
>> and we can start to worry about global cooling again, if we live that 
>> long.
>> To attribute  "global warming" to anthropic (man-made) causes is 
>> somewhat silly.
>> Socialists believe it is due to capitalistic greed. "third world" 
>> nations may believe it is caused by developed counties squandering our 
>> limited resources; and some may think that witchcraft  is to blame. I 
>> never liked witches, so I tend to blame them for everything thats bad.
>> In all likelihood, global climate change is controlled by cosmic 
>> forces (sunspots, etc) over which man has no control, so maybe we 
>> should just sit back and enjoy it.
>> Jerry Cohen
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mike Quastel <maay100 at bgu.ac.il>
>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing 
>> List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
>> Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 1:13:31 PM
>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Climate Change a fraud?
>> 
>> I have been concerned to hear during the past year or so, even  from 
>> this otherwise informative and properly skeptical group, statements 
>> that findings of climate warming- or more properly climate change- is 
>> some sort of fraud, scam or conspiracy. The geologic and oceanographic 
>> evidence so far really does seem to support that climate change is 
>> taking place in our own lifetime. Whether it will turn out to be man 
>> made, a natural cycle, some sort of solar phenomenon, temporary or 
>> cumulative in the long run remains to be seen. There is nothing wrong 
>> with being skeptical -  indeed, that is the proper scientific approach
>> - but in view of the potentially very serious global consequences, it 
>> would be wise to keep an open mind on the subject and most definitely 
>> not rule out the possibility of human causation.
>> 
>> Mike Quastel
>> 
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