[ RadSafe ] Anyone have GOOD world wide energy consumption data?

Tue Mar 22 16:26:40 CDT 2011

Try -Access to Energy, info at oism.org. -archive ref.
Howard Long

On Mar 21, 2011, at 11:31 PM, Philip Simpson <phils at umich.edu> wrote:

> Ted , 
> 
> You can also look at the US Central Intelligence Agency website's Factbook under "world" and "economics".  "The Economist" magazine/website may also be a good resource for this type of data.
> 
> Phil Simpson, BSE Nuc. Eng., BSE Mat & Met Eng.
> Assistant Reactor Manager (Retired)
> University of Michigan
> Ford Nuclear Reactor
> 
> 
> On Mar 20, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Ted de Castro wrote:
> 
>> Thanks - I found my error - it was 85,000  thousand barrels of oil per day!
>> 
>> So - the purpose of my calculation?
>> 
>> Well - a quick gedanken experiment (or muse)  suggested me that solar, wind, wave or maybe even bio fuels were hopeless as a fossil fuel replacement - SINCE - as I reasoned:
>> 
>> Wind wave and solar are PROMPT use of solar energy.
>> 
>> Bio fuels are collected solar energy  integrated over a growing season - and consumed in much less time thus exceeding the rate of solar energy input.
>> 
>> Likewise fossil fuels represent millions of years of solar energy integration over the entire planet - land AND sea, collected and stored at some probably small efficiency which I couldn't begin to guess - BUT which we consumed over only a couple of centuries - once again FAR outstripping the prompt solar energy rate.
>> 
>> Nuclear of course represents solar or maybe stellar energy as well - BUT from within the star and integrated over billions of years.
>> 
>> Anyhow - since the "devil is in the details" as they say - in this case those unknown efficiencies ....  A more direct calculation seemed a good way to "check this out".
>> 
>> So - what I came up with was to replace the entire world wide fossil fuel use assuming we could harvest that with 10% efficiency (current unconcentrated solar cell max efficiency) would require 0.2% of the entire land surface (or 1% for biofuel - 2% efficiency last I heard - but that COULD use sea space as well).
>> 
>> I found that surprisingly maybe almost possibly doable!  I had thought that considering the LONG integration time as opposed to the short use times and there would be no way the the prompt solar rate would be sufficient - so I was wrong - thus concluding that the efficiency of solar to biomass to fossil fuel conversion MUST be vanishingly small!
>> 
>> On 3/20/2011 10:38 AM, Jeff Terry wrote:
>>> Hi Ted,
>>> 
>>> I rely on the BP World Energy Report for all of my energy consumption data that I present.
>>> 
>>> http://tinyurl.com/26h3ayt
>>> 
>>> Jeff
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jeff Terry
>>> Asst. Professor of Physics
>>> Life Science Bldg Rm 166
>>> Illinois Institute of Technology
>>> 3101 S. Dearborn St.
>>> Chicago IL 60616
>>> 630-252-9708
>>> terryj at iit.edu
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mar 20, 2011, at 12:34 PM, Ted de Castro wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Members here often have good data like this right on the top of their minds or at least readily available.
>>>> 
>>>> I wanted to do some world wide energy consumption/resource calculations - purpose not important at this point - so using Google I was trying to determine world wide fossil fuel consumption and ran into what appeared to be good information - mostly from Wikipedia.
>>>> 
>>>> I found references for oil:
>>>> 
>>>> 85,000 barrels per day 2003
>>>> 
>>>> Barrel of oil 42 gallons crude - 44 gallons refined of which 6.8 gallons is NOT used for fuel.
>>>> 
>>>> and Oil energy equivalent /barrel
>>>> 
>>>> 1.7 MWh
>>>> 5.8 e6 BTU
>>>> 6.1178632e9 J
>>>> 
>>>> THEN I found another reference that gave 2004 data:
>>>> 
>>>> Oil 160 e15 BTU/yr
>>>> coal 95e15 BTU/yr
>>>> gas  95e15 BTU/yr
>>>> 
>>>> I thought that NOW I have the info I needed and could bring it all together.
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately I chose to check the data for internal consistency and:
>>>> 
>>>> 85,000*5.8 e6*365 = 1.8 e14 BTU.yr
>>>> 
>>>> from the first reference does NOT equal 1.6 e17 as stated in the other reference.
>>>> 
>>>> Factor of 2 agreement I would have accepted - factor of 10 - skeptical.  BUT factor of 1000 -
>>>> all I have here is junk data which could only yield a GIGO calculation.
>>>> 
>>>> MAYBE the ratio of oil/coal/gas is ok - but considering the discrepancy - unless ONE of those numbers can agree with RELIABLE data - I doubt that as well.
>>>> 
>>>> So - can anyone point me to better data?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks
>>>> 
>>>> Ted de Castro
>>>> retired (for all those that want to ascribe an affiliation with each message)
>>>> 
>>>> 
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