[ RadSafe ] Boron-11 aneutronic fusion
franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
Mon May 30 09:26:40 CDT 2011
James,
Interesting to hear from you again after such a long time of silence!
Unfortunately I am not able to follow your reasoning due to lack of appropriate nuclear knowledge. Only a few weeks ago I attended a lecture in my former research institute about innovative nucleart power supplies, but nothing was said about your B-11 proton fusion. So this might be a plan for the 25th century. But we need power here and now.
Best regards,
Franz
---- James Salsman <jsalsman at gmail.com> schrieb:
> Many people on this list have insinuated that I am opposed to nuclear power,
> but I am strongly in favor of boron-11+proton fusion, because it is
> aneutronic and thus does not produce any nuclear waste, unlike almost all
> forms of fission and fusion power.
>
> Are any health physicists working on B11 fusion human exposure cross
> sections?
>
> Regards,
> James Salsman
>
> On May 29, 2011 10:02 AM, <radsafe-request at health.phys.iit.edu> wrote:
>
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Need Manual for Alnor RAD-100 and RAD101R (B. Kanyar)
> 2. Now the anecdotes begin (Jeff Terry)
> 3. Re: The human sex odds at birth after theatmosphericatomic
> bomb tests, after Chernobyl, and in the vicinity of nuclear
> facilities (Busby Chris)
> 4. Re: Now the anecdotes begin (Doug Huffman)
> 5. Re: human sex odds at birth (derek.putley at tesco.net)
> 6. Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron (Roger Helbig)
> 7. Re: [Bulk] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron (Tom Simpson)
> 8. Re: Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron (Perle, Sandy)
> 9. Re: Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron (Busby Chris)
> 10. Re: Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fightradiation with Boron (Busby Chris)
> 11. Re: Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron (Perle, Sandy)
> 12. Re: Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmersfightradiation with Boron (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
> 13. Re: Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmersfightradiation with Boron (franz.schoenhofer at chello.at)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 19:04:20 +0200
> From: "B. Kanyar" <kanyarb at rekhiv.sote.hu>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Need Manual for Alnor RAD-100 and RAD101R
> To: <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID: <7C5D5001B4B84A4D8A09ECCD2F1D76C1 at kanyarb>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"
>
> Dear Consultant to ALNOR RAD 100/101, dear R.J. Gunter,
> Now from the Radiation Protection Service of the Semmelweis Univ.
> Budapest/Hungary (mainly focused to medical fileds, in relation of X-rays
> and nuclear medicine, incl. personal dose monitoring) I am interesting of
> the params of the Electronic Rad. Dose Meters Alnor RAD 100 and 101. Please
> could you provide the manual(s) of them?
> Kind regards,
> Bela KANYAR, PhD in physics, head of the Service.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:26:50 -0500
> From: Jeff Terry <terryj at iit.edu>
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Now the anecdotes begin
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID: <D7F7DD63-D9B8-4B7E-B18C-0DCB3C078AFD at iit.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Earless bunny blamed on Fukushima.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3mwqqsd
>
> Jeff
>
> Jeff Terry
> Assoc. Professor of Physics
> Life Science Bldg Rm 166
> Illinois Institute of Technology
> 3101 S. Dearborn St.
> Chicago IL 60616
> 630-252-9708
> terryj at iit.edu
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 10:07:30 +0100
> From: "Busby Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The human sex odds at birth after
> theatmosphericatomic bomb tests, after Chernobyl, and in the
> vicinity
> of nuclear facilities
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
> Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" <
> radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <33024CCAFFB61C429DF9581DDE814DF40510B3E3 at MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Sorry Steven I must have missed that. Bogus. THis is because the ICRP66
> human respiratory tract model was examined in a phD thesis referred to and
> discussed by Ed Radford, ex Chair or BEIR III in his memoirs which I am
> editing. He (Radford) says that the penetration depth of the alphas from
> surface material in the lung was chosen by ICRP to be muchg lower than it
> is, therefore reducing the number of target cells for exposure and reducing
> the biological effectiveness for cancer induction per unit dose. Thertde was
> much more. I believe this got published somewhere and Radford took it up
> with ICRP but they ignored him. You may recall that Radford was pushed out
> of BEIR and his concerns were marginalised.
> The question of my expertise has been addressed in the UK and US courts by
> those who do not wish to allow me to rtestify. In all cases they have been
> unable to persuade the courts to take the position that you take. The item
> youy refer to was sent to the court in the UK as evidence from some eminent
> lawyers in the USA and is ony one of a number of similar letters writtn in
> my support.
> I think that you should ultimately assume that I know enough to assist the
> courts in making decisions in this complex area.
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Steven Dapra
> Sent: Sat 28/05/2011 03:18
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The human sex odds at birth after
> theatmosphericatomic bomb tests, after Chernobyl, and in the vicinity of
> nuclear facilities
>
> At 02:00 PM 5/27/2011, you wrote:
> >But the ECRR and the ICRP have exactly the same status. Can it be
> >that you guys dont know this?
> >They are both supposed to be independent.
> >But just ask ICRP who funds it.
> >It wont tell you.
>
> Chris --- can you read English? Here's a link to the
> ICRP. http://www.icrp.org/
>
> Its funding is explained on the right side of the page, in
> the last paragraph under the heading "About ICRP."
>
> The ICRP has been operating for 83 years, and its work is
> universally accepted. How long has the ECRR been in existence, and
> how widely are its claims accepted?
>
> With respect to 'sensible explanations,' a few weeks ago you
> said an ICRP publication (No. 66?) had bogus coefficients, or
> something like that. You used the word "bogus." I asked you why
> they were "bogus," and so far you have not replied. How about a
> "sensible explanation" for that? After all, according to your LLRC
> report, you are an "expert" on radioactivity.
>
> Steven Dapra
>
>
> >ICRP has no official status. This is what its secretary Jack
> >Valentin told us at a meeting in the European Parliament in 1997. He
> >said, the European Parliament is free to consult any organisation
> >for its advice.
> >
> >I still havent had any sensible explanation of the infant leukemias.
> >Sincerely
> >
> >Chris
>
> [edit]
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the
> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
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>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 05:41:05 -0500
> From: Doug Huffman <doug.huffman at wildblue.net>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Now the anecdotes begin
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID: <4DE222C1.5030807 at wildblue.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Uh oh! Coincidence! In 1970 at INEL-NRF, we had earless bunnies and
> they were significantly internally contaminated with radioactivity.
>
> The cause of the earlessness was witnessed. They occasionally failed to
> duck low enough into the sprinkler-head recesses in the greensward as
> the mower passed over.
>
> Someone decided to take one home as pet, I hope and not to eat, in his
> lunchpail. It was detected by the exit portal monitor.
>
>
> On 5/28/2011 22:26, Jeff Terry wrote:
> > Earless bunny blamed on Fukushima.
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/3mwqqsd
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > Jeff Terry
> > Assoc. Professor of Physics
> > Life Science Bldg Rm 166
> > Illinois Institute of Technology
> > 3101 S. Dearborn St.
> > Chicago IL 60616
> > 630-252-9708
> > terryj at iit.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 12:48:34 +0100
> From: <derek.putley at tesco.net>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] human sex odds at birth
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Cc: radsafe-request at health.phys.iit.edu
> Message-ID:
> <20110529124834.TANG2.319015.root at web09-winn.ispmail.private.ntl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Steven
>
> Thankyou very much for taking the trouble to re-post those messages.
>
> I have started my own "peer review" of the post-Chernobyl paper by Prof.
> Busby, but I fear that it is going to take me some tile before I will be
> able to post properly respectful and detailed comments on radsafe.
>
> I'm afraid I can only offer the usual excuses for progressing this at such a
> slow pace, including my day-job and my other (self-funded) research work.
>
> Since Chernobyl happened some years ago, I expect that other far better
> qualified than myself have already looked into this data quite extensively.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Derek Putley.
>
> >
> > Message: 18
> > Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 07:15:07 -0600
> > From: Steven Dapra <sjd at swcp.com>
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] The human sex odds at birth after
> > theatmosphericatomic bomb tests, after Chernobyl, and in the
> vicinity
> > of nuclear facilities
> > To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> > List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
> > Message-ID: <201105281315.p4SDF8LU027491 at ame7.swcp.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
> >
> > May 28
> >
> > Since Chris Busby complained (below) that no one has
> > presented a "sensible explanation" of the post-Chernobyl infant
> > leukemias, I have reproduced my brief critique of his article. Then
> > I reproduce his reply, and the germane portion of my rejoinder to
> > that. My rejoinder was never answered. Below that are the
> > References to my critique of Busby.
> >
> > Steven Dapra
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 05:08:26 -0700
> From: "Roger Helbig" <rhelbig at sfo.com>
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron
> To: "Radsafe" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID: <sig.61302407b1.001d01cc1df9$1e0f4080$5a2dc180$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
>
> I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more harm
> than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> department should be made aware of this.
>
> Roger Helbig
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 08:28:40 -0400
> From: Tom Simpson <bullet308 at att.net>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] [Bulk] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmers fight radiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID: <4DE23BF8.10706 at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Based on what the Wikipedia has to say:
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_borate#Toxicity
>
>
> its not particularly toxic, but its not something I particularly care to
> ingest, either.
>
>
> -Tom
>
>
> On 05/29/2011 08:08 AM, Roger Helbig wrote:
> >
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> > 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
> >
> > I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more
> harm
> > than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> > harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> > department should be made aware of this.
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 07:43:37 -0500
> From: "Perle, Sandy" <sperle at mirion.com>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmers fight radiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID:
>
> <5326C9CB0E90714DA70EE1AD39296DFE0956A21689 at MIRION-EXCH-HQ.mirion.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Roger,
>
> Good example where govt. And respected scientists, preferably from with the
> local community would speak out and have the appropriate facts.
>
> Regards,
> Sandy
> Sent from my Windows phone from AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Helbig <rhelbig at sfo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:09 AM
> To: Radsafe <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron
>
>
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
>
> I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more harm
> than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> department should be made aware of this.
>
> Roger Helbig
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the
> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
> PROPRIETARY INFORMATION NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments
> transmitted with it are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
> contain proprietary information of Mirion Technologies and/or its
> affiliates. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution,
> copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by
> replying to the message, delete the original message and all attachments
> from your computer, and destroy any copies you may have made. Thank you.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 16:07:32 +0100
> From: "Busby Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmers fight radiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
> Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List" <
> radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <33024CCAFFB61C429DF9581DDE814DF40510B3EC at MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> There is no physics or chemistry based basis for this idiocy. How can borax
> help in this situation? If the cows are contaminated the milk is
> contaminated. Boron absorbs neutrons in a neutron field. I hope there are no
> neutrons inb the cows.
> They could perhaps push out the uranium and strontium with calcium
> supplements. That might work. Its the Sr and U and PU that are the nasty
> nuclides here in the milk.
> Chris
>
>
> -----Originoral Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Perle, Sandy
> Sent: Sun 29/05/2011 13:43
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron
>
> Roger,
>
> Good example where govt. And respected scientists, preferably from with the
> local community would speak out and have the appropriate facts.
>
> Regards,
> Sandy
> Sent from my Windows phone from AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Helbig <rhelbig at sfo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:09 AM
> To: Radsafe <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron
>
>
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
>
> I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more harm
> than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> department should be made aware of this.
>
> Roger Helbig
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the
> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
> PROPRIETARY INFORMATION NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments
> transmitted with it are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
> contain proprietary information of Mirion Technologies and/or its
> affiliates. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution,
> copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by
> replying to the message, delete the original message and all attachments
> from your computer, and destroy any copies you may have made. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the
> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 16:11:56 +0100
> From: "Busby Chris" <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmers fightradiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "Radsafe"
> <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <33024CCAFFB61C429DF9581DDE814DF40510B3ED at MAILSERVICE.ad.ulster.ac.uk
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Agree with Helbig
> Chris
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Roger Helbig
> Sent: Sun 29/05/2011 13:08
> To: Radsafe
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fightradiation with Boron
>
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
>
> I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more harm
> than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> department should be made aware of this.
>
> Roger Helbig
>
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the
> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 10:16:49 -0500
> From: "Perle, Sandy" <sperle at mirion.com>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmers fight radiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Message-ID:
>
> <5326C9CB0E90714DA70EE1AD39296DFE0956A2168C at MIRION-EXCH-HQ.mirion.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Chris,
>
> Absolutely ludicrious. These remedies should be quashed expeditiously. This
> also affords false sense of security. There is none.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sandy
> Sent from my Windows phone from AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Busby Chris <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 11:12 AM
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List <
> radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>; The International Radiation Protection (Health
> Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron
>
>
> There is no physics or chemistry based basis for this idiocy. How can borax
> help in this situation? If the cows are contaminated the milk is
> contaminated. Boron absorbs neutrons in a neutron field. I hope there are no
> neutrons inb the cows.
> They could perhaps push out the uranium and strontium with calcium
> supplements. That might work. Its the Sr and U and PU that are the nasty
> nuclides here in the milk.
> Chris
>
>
> -----Originoral Message-----
> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Perle, Sandy
> Sent: Sun 29/05/2011 13:43
> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron
>
> Roger,
>
> Good example where govt. And respected scientists, preferably from with the
> local community would speak out and have the appropriate facts.
>
> Regards,
> Sandy
> Sent from my Windows phone from AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roger Helbig <rhelbig at sfo.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:09 AM
> To: Radsafe <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron
>
>
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
>
> I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more harm
> than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> department should be made aware of this.
>
> Roger Helbig
>
> _______________________________________________
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> PROPRIETARY INFORMATION NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments
> transmitted with it are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
> contain proprietary information of Mirion Technologies and/or its
> affiliates. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution,
> copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 18:20:52 +0200
> From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmersfightradiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
> Protection (Health Physics) MailingList" <
> radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Cc: Busby Chris <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
> Message-ID: <20110529182054.H735V.88426.root at viefep21.chello.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> RADSAFErs,
>
> I am shocked, I am deeply shocked! Chris Busby makes a (partly) correct
> statement on RADSAFE!!!!!!!
>
> I loan the word "idiocy" from him for the original story. There is so much
> nonsense in this statement from Hawaii (who is behind it?), that if I ever
> had started to collect such statements it would be a favourite.
>
> Maybe I'll find time to comment the original message a little closer. I am a
> member of the International Union of Radioecologists, a real organisation,
> not a fake one like Busbys "European Commission of something with
> radiation". I have suffered many years from the Chernobyl aftermath in
> Austria - of course only because of the hysteria and the drawback in my
> carreer, because I did not support the hysteria and thought that other -
> naturally occurring radionuclides - were of much more importance for human
> radiation exposure than the finally hardly measurable ultra traces of
> Cs-137.
>
> Chris, you are insofar wrong: Although I also hope that cows have not
> ingested neutron sources, you should be aware that Sr-90 is deposited in
> bones and it is hardly, if at all, possible to get rid of it. Uranium
> concentration is enhanced in other organs - use the ICRP XX or the valid EU
> directive to find out about critical organs - I am not going to do this for
> you, unless you make a reasonable financial offer, which should not be so
> difficult because of your obvious fine income for instance from US lawfirms.
> Regarding the hazards from plutonium (I suppose you mean Pu-239?) I refrain
> to comment on this nonsense. If you know about any measurements of Pu-239 in
> milk I would appreciate to learn about them. You seem not even to be aware,
> that the long term concern is Cs-137, short term also Cs-134. There have
> been more than enough experiments after Chernobyl on how to reduce the
> Cs-137 in milk, with limited success. I think that a reduction by a factor
> two does not justify the e
> ffort and the costs.
>
> Why don't you try to avoid the antinuclear bla-bla like uranium and
> plutonium in milk is a concern if you want to be acknowledged as a
> scientist? I know, that "plutonium" sounds extremely well in anti-nuclear
> propaganda!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Franz
>
>
>
> ---- Busby Chris <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk> schrieb:
> > There is no physics or chemistry based for this idiocy. How can borax help
> in this situation? If the cows are contaminated the milk is contaminated.
> Boron absorbs neutrons in a neutron field. I hope there are no neutrons inb
> the cows.
> > They could perhaps push out the uranium and strontium with calcium
> supplements. That might work. Its the Sr and U and PU that are the nasty
> nuclides here in the milk.
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > -----Originoral Message-----
> > From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Perle, Sandy
> > Sent: Sun 29/05/2011 13:43
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Good example where govt. And respected scientists, preferably from with
> the local community would speak out and have the appropriate facts.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sandy
> > Sent from my Windows phone from AT&T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Helbig <rhelbig at sfo.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:09 AM
> > To: Radsafe <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron
> >
> >
> >
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> > 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
> >
> > I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more
> harm
> > than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> > harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> > department should be made aware of this.
> >
> > Roger Helbig
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> >
> > PROPRIETARY INFORMATION NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments
> transmitted with it are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
> contain proprietary information of Mirion Technologies and/or its
> affiliates. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution,
> copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by
> replying to the message, delete the original message and all attachments
> from your computer, and destroy any copies you may have made. Thank you.
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
> --
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> Austria
> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 18:20:52 +0200
> From: <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy
> Farmersfightradiation with Boron
> To: "The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> List" <radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu>, "The International Radiation
> Protection (Health Physics) MailingList" <
> radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Cc: Busby Chris <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk>
> Message-ID: <20110529182054.H735V.88426.root at viefep21.chello.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> RADSAFErs,
>
> I am shocked, I am deeply shocked! Chris Busby makes a (partly) correct
> statement on RADSAFE!!!!!!!
>
> I loan the word "idiocy" from him for the original story. There is so much
> nonsense in this statement from Hawaii (who is behind it?), that if I ever
> had started to collect such statements it would be a favourite.
>
> Maybe I'll find time to comment the original message a little closer. I am a
> member of the International Union of Radioecologists, a real organisation,
> not a fake one like Busbys "European Commission of something with
> radiation". I have suffered many years from the Chernobyl aftermath in
> Austria - of course only because of the hysteria and the drawback in my
> carreer, because I did not support the hysteria and thought that other -
> naturally occurring radionuclides - were of much more importance for human
> radiation exposure than the finally hardly measurable ultra traces of
> Cs-137.
>
> Chris, you are insofar wrong: Although I also hope that cows have not
> ingested neutron sources, you should be aware that Sr-90 is deposited in
> bones and it is hardly, if at all, possible to get rid of it. Uranium
> concentration is enhanced in other organs - use the ICRP XX or the valid EU
> directive to find out about critical organs - I am not going to do this for
> you, unless you make a reasonable financial offer, which should not be so
> difficult because of your obvious fine income for instance from US lawfirms.
> Regarding the hazards from plutonium (I suppose you mean Pu-239?) I refrain
> to comment on this nonsense. If you know about any measurements of Pu-239 in
> milk I would appreciate to learn about them. You seem not even to be aware,
> that the long term concern is Cs-137, short term also Cs-134. There have
> been more than enough experiments after Chernobyl on how to reduce the
> Cs-137 in milk, with limited success. I think that a reduction by a factor
> two does not justify the e
> ffort and the costs.
>
> Why don't you try to avoid the antinuclear bla-bla like uranium and
> plutonium in milk is a concern if you want to be acknowledged as a
> scientist? I know, that "plutonium" sounds extremely well in anti-nuclear
> propaganda!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Franz
>
>
>
> ---- Busby Chris <C.Busby at ulster.ac.uk> schrieb:
> > There is no physics or chemistry based for this idiocy. How can borax help
> in this situation? If the cows are contaminated the milk is contaminated.
> Boron absorbs neutrons in a neutron field. I hope there are no neutrons inb
> the cows.
> > They could perhaps push out the uranium and strontium with calcium
> supplements. That might work. Its the Sr and U and PU that are the nasty
> nuclides here in the milk.
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > -----Originoral Message-----
> > From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Perle, Sandy
> > Sent: Sun 29/05/2011 13:43
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers
> fight radiation with Boron
> >
> > Roger,
> >
> > Good example where govt. And respected scientists, preferably from with
> the local community would speak out and have the appropriate facts.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Sandy
> > Sent from my Windows phone from AT&T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Roger Helbig <rhelbig at sfo.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2011 8:09 AM
> > To: Radsafe <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > Subject: [ RadSafe ] Hawaii Health Guide - Big Island Dairy Farmers fight
> radiation with Boron
> >
> >
> >
> http://hawaiihealthguide.com/healthtalk/display.htm?id=915&hhsid=9ea42c3eb9d
> > 93ab4faf7ca3cd98ee6d8
> >
> > I strongly suspect that these well meaning dairy farmers are doing more
> harm
> > than good. Is that the case or does sodium borate do no harm? If it does
> > harm especially to the resulting milk, then the State of Hawaii's health
> > department should be made aware of this.
> >
> > Roger Helbig
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> >
> > PROPRIETARY INFORMATION NOTICE: This e-mail message and all attachments
> transmitted with it are intended solely for use by the addressee and may
> contain proprietary information of Mirion Technologies and/or its
> affiliates. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution,
> copying or other use of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have
> received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by
> replying to the message, delete the original message and all attachments
> from your computer, and destroy any copies you may have made. Thank you.
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> >
> > Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood
> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> >
> > For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings
> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
>
> --
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> Austria
> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> RadSafe mailing list
> RadSafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> http://health.phys.iit.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/radsafe
>
>
> End of RadSafe Digest, Vol 643, Issue 1
> ***************************************
> _______________________________________________
> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
>
> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and understood the RadSafe rules. These can be found at: http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
>
> For information on how to subscribe or unsubscribe and other settings visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
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