[ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning

Mon Sep 12 13:55:22 CDT 2011

Don't do it!! This is the privilege of our raman-spectroscopist to measure accurately I-131 from Fukushima with secret detectors; to prove core meltdown, radiation doses to the population in the vicinity or probably for a whole country etc. etc. 

Now I switch off the "sarcasm modus": You will find in any airfilters tremendous amounts of short-lived radon daughters if you measure fast enough. Unfortunately there are some natural limitations because of half-lifes to detect Po-210 in air filters.....

But please do not tell those people about radon and daughters in air and the dose implications, they might start a campain to forbid breathing. 

Best regards,

Franz

---- Brent Rogers <brent.rogers at optusnet.com.au> schrieb:
> Mike
> 
> Would you consider counting automotive air filters?
> 
> <wink>
> 
> Brent Rogers
> Sydney Australia
> TDY Washington DC
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 12/09/2011, at 12:24, "Brennan, Mike  (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV> wrote:
> 
> > I am glad that my understanding of the situation agrees with Franz's
> > opinion, as his expertise is far greater than mine (no irony implied;
> > I'm just a sample grabber who reads stuff).  Processing Po-210 from
> > radium sources has several non-trivial issues that need to be
> > considered.  The first is that the decay product of radium is radon,
> > which is a noble gas.  If the radium source is not constructed in a way
> > that contains the radium, there will be little ingrowth of the isotopes
> > down the chain, including Po-210.  The next issue is that if you have a
> > refined radium source, presumably all the lead and bismuth and polonium
> > isotopes would have been left behind with the slag.  This means the
> > Pb-210 won't come into equilibrium for some time (about 140 years, using
> > an old thumb rule).  On the bright side, there are radium sources that
> > are that old, but getting them would be a non-trivial challenge).  
> > 
> > If I were insistent on concentrating Po-210 from "natural" sources, as
> > opposed to going the activation route, I would look at ventilation
> > filters or liquid dust traps for mines.  Obviously some mines would be
> > better for this than others.  
> > 
> > After all that, you are left with the chemistry, which I've been told is
> > trick, especially as the fine powder that results is difficult to keep
> > contained (one person said that alpha recoil increases the spread of
> > contamination, but I wouldn't know).  I've been told that it will crap
> > up a glove box no matter how careful you are, and you will never get it
> > clean (until it decays away).  
> > 
> > All this is easy compared to building a nuclear reactor in order to do
> > activation.  On the other hand, if you already have a nuclear reactor,
> > and all that neutron flux is just going to waste...
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
> > [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
> > franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
> > Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:21 PM
> > To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> > List; The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
> > MailingList
> > Cc: Busby, Chris
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
> > 
> > Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
> > produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian
> > reactors (consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB.
> > What are "old radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about
> > radiation protection or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for
> > separating Po-210 from radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found
> > on the streets, so where do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I
> > would not work with the necessary quantities of radium to extract the
> > polonium obviously used in the murder of Litvinenko.
> > 
> > Franz
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ---- "Busby schrieb:
> >> 
> >> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said
> > that only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison
> > together i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210
> > from old radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job,
> > though you'd have to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more
> > sophisticated ways of killing someone.
> >> Chris 
> >> 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
> >> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
> >> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
> > List
> >> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
> >> 
> >> September 10, 2011
> >> 
> >> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander 
> >> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned  with tea containing a 
> >> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died 
> >> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators 
> >> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell
> > ill.
> >> 
> > --
> > Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> > Habicherg. 31/7
> > A-1160 Vienna
> > Austria
> > mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
> > 
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--
Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
Habicherg. 31/7
A-1160 Vienna
Austria
mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227