[ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning

Mon Sep 12 16:12:43 CDT 2011

franz 
I happen to have a set of filters in my leadcastle right now and the lead 210 peak is very strong while the other peaks of lead and bismuth, which I am familiar with, are almost absent. the filters were in a house for one year.
every once in a while i am surprised on how you get carried away...
marco bähler

Am 12.09.2011 um 20:55 schrieb <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at> <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at>:

> Don't do it!! This is the privilege of our raman-spectroscopist to measure accurately I-131 from Fukushima with secret detectors; to prove core meltdown, radiation doses to the population in the vicinity or probably for a whole country etc. etc. 
> 
> Now I switch off the "sarcasm modus": You will find in any airfilters tremendous amounts of short-lived radon daughters if you measure fast enough. Unfortunately there are some natural limitations because of half-lifes to detect Po-210 in air filters.....
> 
> But please do not tell those people about radon and daughters in air and the dose implications, they might start a campain to forbid breathing. 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Franz
> 
> 
> ---- Brent Rogers <brent.rogers at optusnet.com.au> schrieb:
>> Mike
>> 
>> Would you consider counting automotive air filters?
>> 
>> <wink>
>> 
>> Brent Rogers
>> Sydney Australia
>> TDY Washington DC
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 12/09/2011, at 12:24, "Brennan, Mike  (DOH)" <Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV> wrote:
>> 
>>> I am glad that my understanding of the situation agrees with Franz's
>>> opinion, as his expertise is far greater than mine (no irony implied;
>>> I'm just a sample grabber who reads stuff).  Processing Po-210 from
>>> radium sources has several non-trivial issues that need to be
>>> considered.  The first is that the decay product of radium is radon,
>>> which is a noble gas.  If the radium source is not constructed in a way
>>> that contains the radium, there will be little ingrowth of the isotopes
>>> down the chain, including Po-210.  The next issue is that if you have a
>>> refined radium source, presumably all the lead and bismuth and polonium
>>> isotopes would have been left behind with the slag.  This means the
>>> Pb-210 won't come into equilibrium for some time (about 140 years, using
>>> an old thumb rule).  On the bright side, there are radium sources that
>>> are that old, but getting them would be a non-trivial challenge).  
>>> 
>>> If I were insistent on concentrating Po-210 from "natural" sources, as
>>> opposed to going the activation route, I would look at ventilation
>>> filters or liquid dust traps for mines.  Obviously some mines would be
>>> better for this than others.  
>>> 
>>> After all that, you are left with the chemistry, which I've been told is
>>> trick, especially as the fine powder that results is difficult to keep
>>> contained (one person said that alpha recoil increases the spread of
>>> contamination, but I wouldn't know).  I've been told that it will crap
>>> up a glove box no matter how careful you are, and you will never get it
>>> clean (until it decays away).  
>>> 
>>> All this is easy compared to building a nuclear reactor in order to do
>>> activation.  On the other hand, if you already have a nuclear reactor,
>>> and all that neutron flux is just going to waste...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of
>>> franz.schoenhofer at chello.at
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 1:21 PM
>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
>>> List; The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
>>> MailingList
>>> Cc: Busby, Chris
>>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>>> 
>>> Absurd and lacking any insight in the topic and on reality. Po-210 is
>>> produced commercially as far as I know (almost) exclusively in Russian
>>> reactors (consult Google). They have enough to spend some to the KGB.
>>> What are "old radium tubes"? Since you have neither knowledge about
>>> radiation protection or chemistry I wonder where you got the recipe for
>>> separating Po-210 from radium. Radiumsources usually are not to be found
>>> on the streets, so where do you get them from? Being a radiochemist I
>>> would not work with the necessary quantities of radium to extract the
>>> polonium obviously used in the murder of Litvinenko.
>>> 
>>> Franz
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---- "Busby schrieb:
>>>> 
>>>> Yes. Interesting. Everyone blamed the Russians because it was said
>>> that only someone with access to a reactor could have put the poison
>>> together i.e. it was not a amateur job. But it is easy to separate Po210
>>> from old radium tubes with nitric acid and baking soda; a kitchen job,
>>> though you'd have to be jolly careful. I think KGB would have far more
>>> sophisticated ways of killing someone.
>>>> Chris 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu on behalf of Otto G. Raabe
>>>> Sent: Sat 9/10/2011 7:38 PM
>>>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing
>>> List
>>>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Polonium-210 poisoning
>>>> 
>>>> September 10, 2011
>>>> 
>>>> At London's Millenium Hotel on November 1, 2006, Alexander 
>>>> Litvinenko, a Russian defector, was poisoned  with tea containing a 
>>>> large amount of polonium-210. He fell ill that very day and died 
>>>> after a long hospitalization on November 23. He told investigators 
>>>> that he had met with two former KGB agents early on the day he fell
>>> ill.
>>>> 
>>> --
>>> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
>>> Habicherg. 31/7
>>> A-1160 Vienna
>>> Austria
>>> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
>>> 
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> 
> --
> Franz Schoenhofer, PhD, MinRat
> Habicherg. 31/7
> A-1160 Vienna
> Austria
> mobile: ++43 699 1706 1227
> 
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