[ RadSafe ] More Cloning, Shroud, Etc.

Thu Dec 27 18:29:14 CST 2012

Tsk, tsk, Howard.

I believe that the phrase, "Big Bang theory of creation" is both seldom if ever used by people discussing the question and an example of the logical fallacy of "begging the question", in that the inclusion of the word "creation" is there to imply the acceptance of the assumption that there is a "Creator".  Such an assumption is not appropriate.  

While I am not a cosmologist, and have only a passing interest in The Big Bang Theory, I am fairly certain that the original phase of expansion of the universe as posited in that theory is difficult to express in terms of "... times faster than the speed of light", as it was the universe expanding, but not expanding "into" anything, and I am not sure how to treat time and distance (and hence velocity) during that phase.  

I am afraid I have to dismiss "most American Christians" as being a convincing authority on questions of cosmology, astronomy, anthropology, history, and even theology, as I have encountered far too many who feel that belief trumps evidence.  

Your last paragraph contains numerous logical fallacies, mostly around the unstated assumption that an (unregulated) free market is a desirable thing that provides the greatest good (however you wish to parse it between the players).  That you think the current intellectual environments in either Europe or the US are "Socialist" or "Fascist" supports my lack of enthusiasm in accepting that a given "American Christian" is well versed in history.  

There are points here to be argued, Howard, but they are both more productive and more fun if argued honestly.  

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Long
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 3:51 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Cc: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] More Cloning, Shroud, Etc.

Franz,
Do most physicists believe in the Big Bang theory of creation? 
I am curious as to how many radsafers believe that the known universe was created in a flash trillions of times faster than the speed of light. Like most American Christians, I believe in a Creation in which the duration of God's "day" is beyond comprehension (likely a billion orbits of the sun)

I do believe that the Spirit of love (the Commandment of Jesus illustrated by the Parable of the Good Samaritan) has largely transformed human relations and that it exists in a market economy of individual choice, not in a controlled, political, socialist or fascist economy like Europe's or Obama's.

Happy New Year
Howard Long

On Dec 27, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Franz Schönhofer <franz.schoenhofer at chello.at> wrote:

> Dear Joe,
> Sorry to disturb your highly sophisticated speculations by some facts. 
> They are simple: this socalled image of Jesus is a fake from medeaval times.
> Unless you have access and time to go deeper into this topic, look at 
> Wikipedia. (Citation: In 1988 the University of Oxford, the University 
> of Arizona and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology - all of them 
> being world authorities on radiocarbon dating found independently that 
> the shroud can be dated to between 1260 and 1390.) The Roman Catholic 
> Church accepted this result.  I know that there are some forces which 
> try to convince people about the stories of the bible and to "prove", 
> that Jesus was a historical person. Maybe he was, but then one would 
> need to have first hand information - not second, third or fourth hand one, even citing "evidence" written down several hundred years later.
> I was always amused how some so-called scientists tried desperately to refer the discrepancy to "contamination" by sampling and analysing. I never read of any calculation, how 33 AC could be mistaken for the 13th century. Those people performing analysis are absolute professionals and know, how to avoid contamination.
> 
> I know that creationists doubt principally the C-14 mesurements, because their results are against their believe. Are you US Radsafers aware that creationism does not play any role in Europe or anywhere else? Even the most stubborn roman catholic church has acknowledged the concept of evolution!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Franz
> 
> Sorry Joe, to disturb your dream about cloning Jesus Christ. Forget it.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Franz
> 
> 
> sprüngliche Nachricht----- From: JPreisig at aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:02 AM
> To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
> Subject: [ RadSafe ] More Cloning, Shroud, Etc.
> 
> Dear Radsafe,
> 
>    I hope you all are well.
> 
>    Was watching a TV (USA) show this evening about  some fellow trying 
> to use the Shroud of Turin to develop a good image of the person who 
> had been buried in the shroud (Jesus???).
> 
>    Perhaps we scientists can do a bit better  nowadays.
> 
>    The shroud has blood on it in fair  quantities.  If the blood was 
> still alive, scientists might possibly clone the original being from 
> the live blood.
> 
>    Secondly, the DNA itself should eventually yield  ALL??? the 
> characteristics of the person who had been buried in the shroud.  Hair 
> color, length of nose, eye color, height???, weight???, 
> characteristics of the various body organs, susceptibility to various 
> cancers???,. and so on.  Wonder if the keepers of the shroud would 
> allow scientists to take enough blood for a modern analysis???
> 
>    And perhaps someday, once the exact structure,  composition etc. of 
> the DNA is known, one might someday construct a person from the DNA.  
> Certainly this  would be quite a difficult undertaking.  Would the 
> result of this work be Jesus???
> 
>   Could we someday construct dinosaurs from total  knowledge of their 
> DNA???
> 
>   Have a good week at work or at home.
> 
>   Regards,   Joe Preisig
> 
> 
> 
> 
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