[ RadSafe ] More Cloning, Shroud, Etc.

Steven Dapra sjd at swcp.com
Fri Dec 28 00:17:23 CST 2012

Dec. 27, 2012

         The authenticity of the Shroud of Turin 
will probably never be proven.  Regardless of its 
authenticity, Jesus was a real historical 
character.  He is mentioned in the writings of 
Josephus, and almost all historians consider the 
"Jesus passage" in Josephus to be authentic.

         We have no first hand evidence that 
Homer (for example) ever lived.  According to 
Wikipedia "when he lived is unknown," and "there 
is no reliable biographical information handed 
down from classical antiquity."  However most 
classicists accept his authorship of the Iliad 
and the Odyssey.  The historicity of Jesus of 
Nazareth is far better established than that of Homer.

         Your message, Franz, does not specify 
which C-14 measurements are doubted by 
creationists.  Assuming that you mean the C-14 
measurements of the Shroud, based upon what I 
know about the creationist views on C-14, I 
believe it is safe to say creationists would 
accept the C-14 measurements of the Shroud of 
Turin.  Creationists have legitimate reasons for 
questioning some C-14 dates, however these dates 
are ones which are closer to the time of the 
Genesis flood.  I am not well enough versed in 
current creationist views of C-14 dating to comment further on them.

         Your claim that creation science "does 
not play any role in Europe or anywhere else" is 
not true.  Active creation science groups can be 
found worldwide.  The fact that the papacy has 
acknowledged the concept of evolution does 
nothing to prove or disprove evolution.  Permit 
me to point out that the papacy acknowledges the historicity of Jesus.

Steven Dapra

At 10:12 AM 12/27/2012, you wrote:
>Dear Joe,
>Sorry to disturb your highly sophisticated speculations by some facts. They
>are simple: this socalled image of Jesus is a fake from medeaval times.
>Unless you have access and time to go deeper into this topic, look at
>Wikipedia. (Citation: In 1988 the University of Oxford, the University of
>Arizona and the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology - all of them being
>world authorities on radiocarbon dating found independently that the shroud
>can be dated to between 1260 and 1390.) The 
>Roman Catholic Church accepted this result.  I know that there are some forces
>which try to convince people about the stories of the bible and to "prove",
>that Jesus was a historical person. Maybe he was, but then one would need to
>have first hand information - not second, third or fourth hand one, even
>citing "evidence" written down several hundred years later.
>I was always amused how some so-called 
>scientists tried desperately to refer the 
>discrepancy to "contamination" by sampling and 
>analysing. I never read of any calculation, how 
>33 AC could be mistaken for the 13th century. 
>Those people performing analysis are absolute 
>professionals and know, how to avoid contamination.
>I know that creationists doubt principally the 
>C-14 mesurements, because their results are 
>against their believe. Are you US Radsafers 
>aware that creationism does not play any role in 
>Europe or anywhere else? Even the most stubborn 
>roman catholic church has acknowledged the concept of evolution!
>Best regards,
>Sorry Joe, to disturb your dream about cloning Jesus Christ. Forget it.
>Best wishes,
>sprüngliche Nachricht----- From: JPreisig at aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 9:02 AM
>To: radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu
>Subject: [ RadSafe ] More Cloning, Shroud, Etc.
>Dear Radsafe,
>     I hope you all are well.
>     Was watching a TV (USA) show this evening about  some fellow trying to
>use the Shroud of Turin to develop a good image 
>of the person who had been buried in the shroud
>     Perhaps we scientists can do a bit better  nowadays.
>     The shroud has blood on it in fair  quantities.  If the blood was
>still alive, scientists might possibly clone the 
>original being from the live blood.
>     Secondly, the DNA itself should eventually yield  ALL??? the
>characteristics of the person who had been 
>buried in the shroud.  Hair color, length of 
>nose, eye color, height???, weight???, 
>characteristics of the various body organs, 
>susceptibility to various cancers???,. and so 
>on.  Wonder if the keepers of the shroud would 
>allow scientists to take enough blood for a modern analysis???
>     And perhaps someday, once the exact structure,  composition etc. of
>the DNA is known, one might someday construct a 
>person from the DNA.  Certainly this  would
>be quite a difficult undertaking.  Would the result of this work be Jesus???
>    Could we someday construct dinosaurs from total  knowledge of their DNA???
>    Have a good week at work or at home.
>    Regards,   Joe Preisig

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