[ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry

Fri Feb 17 01:49:36 CST 2012

Hi Jerry -

Selenium hangs in there with uranium, molybdenum, arsenic, cobalt and a few
other redox-sensitive metals.

O

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Dan, Joe, et al,
> Wow! And here I thought that I was the only one interested the
> biogeochemistry.
> Since you mention the central valley of California, a few years ago there
> was a
> flurry of interest in the news media here regarding Selenium contamination.
> Agricultural crops in the central valley are produced almost entirely by
> irrigation. Over time , the naturally occuring selenium in the soil was
> leached
>  by irrigation waters and concentrated in catch basins where the water was
> collected. Migrating ducks landed in these waters, drank the water and got
> selenium poisoning. The media had a "field day" showing pictures of the
> sick and
> struggling ducks. State legislators became upset with the situation. A
> proposed
> solution called for draining the catch pond into the SF Bay. Legislators
> opposed
> this action fearing exposure of the fish to this toxin. A simple
> calculation
> that I did on the net concentration levels in the bay indicated that these
> levels would be about the same as EPA drinking water standands for
> selenium.
> Finally, the politicians became interested in other subjects and the
> problem
> went away.
> Other areas where biogeochemistry is important would include: iodine
> deficiency
> in certain midwest areas causing a "goiter belt", and discovery of areas in
> Texas with high fluoride levels in the drinking water and low incidence of
> dental cavities. Too bad that the USGS found such studies to be
> insufficiently
> green. The study methodologies would have shed some interesting light on
> the
> potential consequences of nuclear waste repositories.
> Jerry
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> To: Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> Protection
> (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 9:01:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
>
> Dear Jerry:
>
> There are 1/2 billion dollars worth of crops produced in the area - you do
> the math.  Given that the Central Valley in California has a similar
> hydrogeological  / geochemical setting with localized
> uranium features associated with redox traps, then that's another target
> for a similar investigation.  The San Luis Valley produces a large quantity
> of potatoes - so it could become, pardon the pun, a 'hot potato' issue.
> The farmers of the area happen to be pretty handy with firearms, and this
> could impact their livelihood (taking their view), so their trigger fingers
> could get 'itchy'.  They might be a might bit nervous about anyone doing a
> study. I have done litigation investigations in some corners of the USA
> where I was escorted by armed officers during the entire duration of the
> study.
>
> Yes, I think that the results could be highly unpopular, but the realities
> are that there is likely to be minimal risk. The worst case scenario that I
> can imagine would be a number of sections of land would be removed from
> active production.  For me it is odd to think that whereas mining is highly
> regulated and the 'incidental' production and farming use of contaminated
> waters would be a serious offence, the farming community
> is virtually insulated legally from identical consequences.
>
> I tried to get funding support a number of years ago - around 2004, but
> could find no one really interested. If you, or others in the RadSafe
> community know of a source of funding, please tell me and I could increase
> my pay from -zero- on this project to something I could live on.  The
> analytical budget for the soil / water samples are not insignificant.
>
> Dan ii
>
> Dan W McCarn, Geologist
> 108 Sherwood Blvd
> Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
> +1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
> +1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
> HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot com
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dan,
> > It seems to me that the study you are considering on the transport of
> > hazardous  minerals could gain some very valuable information. So why
> > aren't you
> > getting funding support? Hay isn't very expensive. Do the bureaucrats
> fear
> > the
> > you mightobtain some politically unpopular information?? Good Luck,
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > To: Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> > Protection
> > (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>; Malcolm
> > Siegel
> > <msiegel51 at yahoo.com>; Malcolm D Siegel <mdsiegel at unm.edu>
> > Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 1:51:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
> >
> > Dear Jerry:
> >
> > I worked on the peer review of the YM Site Characterization Report years
> > ago.  I was disappointed that there was not more information
> > on comparative 'natural' risk including that of pre-existing uranium
> > features or areas in the flow path of the YM computer models that did not
> > address published high favorability for surficial uranium deposits
> > (non-pedogenic calcrete type). In fact, there was no mention of these
> > features in the Site Characterization report nor geochemical traps that
> > would interact with the solute flow in the far-field.
> >
> > There are potential models of concentration / anthropogene remobilization
> > (e.g. via high volume irrigation) that were not considered.
> >
> > I published on one such model (indirectly) looking at induced
> anthropogene
> > remobilization of uranium / radium via high-volume wells in proximity to
> > from regional redox-controlled roll-fronts in the Alamosa Basin. This
> paper
> > can be found in an IAEA proceedings:
> >
> > McCarn, Dan W. (2004): Scoping Calculations: Natural and anthropogenic
> > multi-pathway risks associated with naturally occurring uranium
> > mineralization in aquifers;
> > *IAEA-TECDOC-1396<
> > http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf>
> > *, pp.289-315.
> >
> > http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf
> >
> > I am currently preparing to obtain additional data from the project area
> to
> > support the project and additional risk calculations.  I will be doing a
> > gamma survey (250-500 line kilometres) across the surface expression of
> the
> > regional redox front to determine the amount of radium deposited
> > in agricultural soils.  The survey will inform a soil / water sampling
> > program and perhaps samples of crops.  Since the area has been actively
> > irrigated for over 100 years from groundwater, I feel there is a strong
> > likelihood of significant build-up of radium and perhaps other redox
> > sensitive elements (Se, As ,Mo etc.)  Whereas radium is not 'redox
> > sensitive', it is incorporated in both uraninite (UO2) and coffinite
> > (U(SiO4
> > )0.9(OH)0.4), the most likely uranium minerals present.  Uranium itself
> > will likely not concentrate in the soil zone because of the highly
> > oxidizing conditions of desert soils. I have data from an analogy of the
> > San Luis Valley in Kazakhstan, where I have detailed trenching data in
> > similar soils.  The uranium tends to be easily mobilized vertically
> whereas
> > the radium and progeny tends to remain in the upper soil zone.
> >
> > Since this work is being funded from my own back pocket, it will probably
> > go a bit slower than a commercial operation! But I'm starting to test my
> > data collection systems and will be employing my horse for the gamma
> > survey.  He only charges me hay & oats!
> >
> > Dan ii
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Dan,
> > > Several years ago, I proposed a study for the DOE comparing the
> potential
> > > risk resulting from the existence, in the state of Nevada, of areas
> with
> > > heavy concentrations of naturally occuring Arsenic as compared with the
> > > potential health effects from the Yucca mountain Waste Repository. I
> was
> > > informed that such information would be irrelavent. Apparenty, the
> > > rejection of YM had nothing to do with it's potential risk. Given this
> > > situation, I wonder why the government pursued the project, spending
> > > enormous budgets on health effects studies, despite the sure knowledge
> > that
> > > the project would fail--and the idea that naturally occurring mineral
> > > formations in the state were more dangerous than a nuclear waste
> > repository
> > > was more than the DOE could handle.
> > > Jerry Cohen
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > *From:* Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > > *To:* Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> > > Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > > *Sent:* Thu, February 16, 2012 12:22:09 PM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
> > >
> > > Dear Jerry:
> > >
> > > It was part of the "Greening of the USGS" which occurred during the
> > > Clinton administration.  Basically, all geologists who were resource
> > > analysts, minerals geologists and their ilk were forced-out of the USGS
> > to
> > > make way for others.
> > >
> > > I am familiar with their work in the 80s, but they all disappeared.
> > >
> > > Dan ii
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dan,
> > >> Several years ago, as I recall, the USGS, had a group, I believe in
> > >> Denver, who
> > >> studied the health effects of naturally occuring toxic materials
> > (arsenic,
> > >> mercury, radium, etc.) They did some interesting work and published a
> > >> monograph
> > >> on the subject. Somehow this area of study fell out favor and the
> group
> > no
> > >> longer exists. Are you familiar with this work, and do you know what
> > >> happened?
> > >> Jerry Cohen
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > >> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
> MailingList
> > >> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > >> Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 3:35:13 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Theme session on Geohealth at the 2012 Rocky
> > >> Mountain
> > >> Section GSA meeting.
> > >>
> > >> Dear Malcolm:
> > >>
> > >> I will be submitting an abstract - I'll have it to you tomorrow.
> > >>
> > >> Dan ii
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Dan W McCarn <
> hotgreenchile at gmail.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > ** ** ** ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Dear RADSAFE colleagues:****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Malcolm Siegel of the **School** of **Medicine**, ****University**
> of
> > >> **New
> > >> > Mexico**** has asked me to forward the following meeting
> announcement
> > to
> > >> > RADSAFE:  GSA is the Geological Society of America.****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Please respond to Malcolm directly at mdsiegel at unm.edu ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Dan ii -- Dan W McCarn, Geologist ****
> > >> >  ------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Dear Colleagues:****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Please consider submitting an abstract to the following Theme
> Session
> > on
> > >> > Geohealth at the 2012 Rocky Mountain Section GSA meeting.****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > T-5. Arsenic, Uranium and Radionuclides: Geology and Health Impacts
> in
> > >> > the Southwest and Rocky Mountains Convener: Malcolm Siegel, School
> of
> > >> > Medicine, ****University** of **New Mexico********
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Concentrations of carcinogenic arsenic and radium and nephrotoxic
> > >> uranium
> > >> > are naturally high in rocks and waters in many parts of the Navajo
> > >> Nation
> > >> > and in the Southwest and **Rocky Mountain States**. Development of
> > >> > mineral resources and urbanization has led to significant pollution
> in
> > >> > several areas. Populations may be exposed to these substances via
> > >> > inhalation, ingestion and dermal routes. Evaluation of health
> effects
> > >> due
> > >> > to past and potential future exposures has political, social and
> > >> economic
> > >> > implications and requires collaboration among earth scientists,
> civil
> > >> > engineers and health professionals. This session will bring together
> > >> > researchers from academic, government and private agencies to
> examine
> > >> > various dimensions of topics such as past and proposed uranium
> mining
> > >> and
> > >> > the impact of new drinking water regulations for arsenic and
> > >> radionuclides
> > >> > on communities in this area.  The meeting will be held May 9-12 in
> > ****
> > >> > Albuquerque**, **NM****. The link to the meeting is:****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.geosociety.org/Sections/rm/2012mtg/****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Abstracts can be submitted until Feb 14, 2012 at: ****
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.geosociety.org/Sections/rm/2012mtg/techProg.htm****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Please note that I have moved from Sandia National Labs to the
> > >> ****School*
> > >> > * of **Medicine**** at UNM; my new contact information is below.
> > Thank
> > >> > you and Happy New Year.  ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Malcolm   ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Malcolm Siegel, Ph.D., M.P.H. ****
> > >> >
> > >> > Environmental Geochemistry and Epidemiology ****
> > >> >
> > >> > Department of Internal Medicine Division of Epidemiology and
> > >> Biostatistics
> > >> > ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ****University** of **New Mexico**** mdsiegel at unm.edu
> > >> msiegel51 at yahoo.com
> > >> > 505-688-3716****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Dan ii
> > >>
> > >> Dan W McCarn, Geologist
> > >> 108 Sherwood Blvd
> > >> Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
> > >> +1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
> > >> +1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
> > >> HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot
> com
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> You are currently subscribed to the RadSafe mailing list
> > >>
> > >> Before posting a message to RadSafe be sure to have read and
> understood
> > >> the
> > >> RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
> > >> http://health.phys.iit.edu/radsaferules.html
> > >>
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> > >> visit:
> > >> http://health.phys.iit.edu
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
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> > >> the RadSafe rules. These can be found at:
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> > >>
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> > >> visit: http://health.phys.iit.edu
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Dan ii

Dan W McCarn, Geologist
108 Sherwood Blvd
Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
+1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
+1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot com