[ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry

Sat Feb 18 02:29:48 CST 2012

Hi Jerry:

An interesting feature about selenium is its risk curve. At low
concentrations, about 95% of all soils in the USA, there is insufficient
selenium to prevent an affliction called 'white muscle disease'
(nutritional myopathy) in young cattle, and ewes & cows receive supplements
a few weeks before expected parturition.  Selenium acts synergistically
with Vitamin E as an antioxidant but also is required in muscle, heart and
neurological function. Here is a link to the Merck Veterinary Manual on
nutritional myopathy (white muscle disease).
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/91002.htm

At moderate concentrations, there is minimal risk and significant benefit.
 At higher concentrations, it acts as a heavy metal poison on the central
nervous system causing staggered gaits in cattle, muscle rigidity and
death. A number of plants hyperaccumulate selenium such as 'locoweed'.
 I've seen a herd of several hundred cattle in which only one
individual acquired a taste for selenium hyperaccumulators, evidenced by
his staggering gait.  The rest of the herd had more normal 'tastes'.  The
owner was a veterinary, so when I reported what I saw, he explained in
happy detail the troubles he had with that wayward steer.

Chronic selenium toxicosis is also mentioned in the Merck Veterinary Manual:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/213302.htm

Quoting from Galeas et al (2006):
http://www.biology.colostate.edu/includes/ajax/143.pdf

Selenium is an essential element for the health of humans and animals, with
a very narrow margin between deﬁciency and toxicity. As an essential
element, Se is needed for the production of selenoproteins that often
function in scavenging free radicals. Hence, Se deﬁciency may promote
cancer (Diwadkar-Navsariwala et al., 2006). Whether Se is essential for
higher plants is still unknown (Fu et al., 2002; Novoselov et al., 2002;
Sors et al., 2005). Selenium toxicity can be a problem when
hyperaccumulators are ingested by livestock. Consumption of these plants,
or ‘locoweeds’, can cause disease and even death (Beath et al., 1934;
Cosgrove, 2001). Selenium toxicity may also arise when seleniferous
soils are used for irrigated agriculture. Over time, the Se tends
to accumulate in these soils as well as in downstream surface waters. Most
plants readily accumulate Se, offering both an attractive source of dietary
Se to prevent Se deﬁciency, and a means to clean up excess Se from the
environment (Bañuelos et al., 2005).
Unquote

Waters containing high selenium can also cause significant buildup in
otherwise normal soils.  A uranium producer in Wyoming used the clean,
excess water produced from mining for hay and alfalfa.  Even though the
concentration of selenium in the water was below USEPA drinking water
standards, over 20+ years, selenium built-up sufficiently in the soils to
require cleanup.  Another uranium producer in Texas put the excess, clean
water (by EPA standards) down the ditch but over 20 years, the radium
concentrated in the soil over that time and required cleanup.  Every test
of the water revealed that the radium concentration was below EPA drinking
water standards. In my model of the San Luis Valley, I modeled radium
concentrations at US EPA standards and still saw significant buildup in my
'hypothetical' soil of 10-12 pCi/g.  EPA cleanup limit is 5 picocuries/gram
in the first 15 cm of soil below the surface (above background values).
When I modeled water coming from a deposit, well, I'll let your imagination
run wild.

But then, you already know all that.  I give a selenium-E supplement to my
horses since the hay they eat is deficient in selenium. At least I hope the
hay is selenium deficient (if it really comes from where my hay supplier
says it comes from)...  Perhaps I should send a sample to the County Agent!

Dan ii

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Dan, Joe, et al,
> Wow! And here I thought that I was the only one interested the
> biogeochemistry.
> Since you mention the central valley of California, a few years ago there
> was a
> flurry of interest in the news media here regarding Selenium contamination.
> Agricultural crops in the central valley are produced almost entirely by
> irrigation. Over time , the naturally occuring selenium in the soil was
> leached
>  by irrigation waters and concentrated in catch basins where the water was
> collected. Migrating ducks landed in these waters, drank the water and got
> selenium poisoning. The media had a "field day" showing pictures of the
> sick and
> struggling ducks. State legislators became upset with the situation. A
> proposed
> solution called for draining the catch pond into the SF Bay. Legislators
> opposed
> this action fearing exposure of the fish to this toxin. A simple
> calculation
> that I did on the net concentration levels in the bay indicated that these
> levels would be about the same as EPA drinking water standands for
> selenium.
> Finally, the politicians became interested in other subjects and the
> problem
> went away.
> Other areas where biogeochemistry is important would include: iodine
> deficiency
> in certain midwest areas causing a "goiter belt", and discovery of areas in
> Texas with high fluoride levels in the drinking water and low incidence of
> dental cavities. Too bad that the USGS found such studies to be
> insufficiently
> green. The study methodologies would have shed some interesting light on
> the
> potential consequences of nuclear waste repositories.
> Jerry
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> To: Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> Protection
> (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 9:01:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
>
> Dear Jerry:
>
> There are 1/2 billion dollars worth of crops produced in the area - you do
> the math.  Given that the Central Valley in California has a similar
> hydrogeological  / geochemical setting with localized
> uranium features associated with redox traps, then that's another target
> for a similar investigation.  The San Luis Valley produces a large quantity
> of potatoes - so it could become, pardon the pun, a 'hot potato' issue.
> The farmers of the area happen to be pretty handy with firearms, and this
> could impact their livelihood (taking their view), so their trigger fingers
> could get 'itchy'.  They might be a might bit nervous about anyone doing a
> study. I have done litigation investigations in some corners of the USA
> where I was escorted by armed officers during the entire duration of the
> study.
>
> Yes, I think that the results could be highly unpopular, but the realities
> are that there is likely to be minimal risk. The worst case scenario that I
> can imagine would be a number of sections of land would be removed from
> active production.  For me it is odd to think that whereas mining is highly
> regulated and the 'incidental' production and farming use of contaminated
> waters would be a serious offence, the farming community
> is virtually insulated legally from identical consequences.
>
> I tried to get funding support a number of years ago - around 2004, but
> could find no one really interested. If you, or others in the RadSafe
> community know of a source of funding, please tell me and I could increase
> my pay from -zero- on this project to something I could live on.  The
> analytical budget for the soil / water samples are not insignificant.
>
> Dan ii
>
> Dan W McCarn, Geologist
> 108 Sherwood Blvd
> Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
> +1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
> +1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
> HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot com
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Dan,
> > It seems to me that the study you are considering on the transport of
> > hazardous  minerals could gain some very valuable information. So why
> > aren't you
> > getting funding support? Hay isn't very expensive. Do the bureaucrats
> fear
> > the
> > you mightobtain some politically unpopular information?? Good Luck,
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > To: Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> > Protection
> > (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>; Malcolm
> > Siegel
> > <msiegel51 at yahoo.com>; Malcolm D Siegel <mdsiegel at unm.edu>
> > Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 1:51:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
> >
> > Dear Jerry:
> >
> > I worked on the peer review of the YM Site Characterization Report years
> > ago.  I was disappointed that there was not more information
> > on comparative 'natural' risk including that of pre-existing uranium
> > features or areas in the flow path of the YM computer models that did not
> > address published high favorability for surficial uranium deposits
> > (non-pedogenic calcrete type). In fact, there was no mention of these
> > features in the Site Characterization report nor geochemical traps that
> > would interact with the solute flow in the far-field.
> >
> > There are potential models of concentration / anthropogene remobilization
> > (e.g. via high volume irrigation) that were not considered.
> >
> > I published on one such model (indirectly) looking at induced
> anthropogene
> > remobilization of uranium / radium via high-volume wells in proximity to
> > from regional redox-controlled roll-fronts in the Alamosa Basin. This
> paper
> > can be found in an IAEA proceedings:
> >
> > McCarn, Dan W. (2004): Scoping Calculations: Natural and anthropogenic
> > multi-pathway risks associated with naturally occurring uranium
> > mineralization in aquifers;
> > *IAEA-TECDOC-1396<
> > http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf>
> > *, pp.289-315.
> >
> > http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/te_1396_web.pdf
> >
> > I am currently preparing to obtain additional data from the project area
> to
> > support the project and additional risk calculations.  I will be doing a
> > gamma survey (250-500 line kilometres) across the surface expression of
> the
> > regional redox front to determine the amount of radium deposited
> > in agricultural soils.  The survey will inform a soil / water sampling
> > program and perhaps samples of crops.  Since the area has been actively
> > irrigated for over 100 years from groundwater, I feel there is a strong
> > likelihood of significant build-up of radium and perhaps other redox
> > sensitive elements (Se, As ,Mo etc.)  Whereas radium is not 'redox
> > sensitive', it is incorporated in both uraninite (UO2) and coffinite
> > (U(SiO4
> > )0.9(OH)0.4), the most likely uranium minerals present.  Uranium itself
> > will likely not concentrate in the soil zone because of the highly
> > oxidizing conditions of desert soils. I have data from an analogy of the
> > San Luis Valley in Kazakhstan, where I have detailed trenching data in
> > similar soils.  The uranium tends to be easily mobilized vertically
> whereas
> > the radium and progeny tends to remain in the upper soil zone.
> >
> > Since this work is being funded from my own back pocket, it will probably
> > go a bit slower than a commercial operation! But I'm starting to test my
> > data collection systems and will be employing my horse for the gamma
> > survey.  He only charges me hay & oats!
> >
> > Dan ii
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:45 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Dear Dan,
> > > Several years ago, I proposed a study for the DOE comparing the
> potential
> > > risk resulting from the existence, in the state of Nevada, of areas
> with
> > > heavy concentrations of naturally occuring Arsenic as compared with the
> > > potential health effects from the Yucca mountain Waste Repository. I
> was
> > > informed that such information would be irrelavent. Apparenty, the
> > > rejection of YM had nothing to do with it's potential risk. Given this
> > > situation, I wonder why the government pursued the project, spending
> > > enormous budgets on health effects studies, despite the sure knowledge
> > that
> > > the project would fail--and the idea that naturally occurring mineral
> > > formations in the state were more dangerous than a nuclear waste
> > repository
> > > was more than the DOE could handle.
> > > Jerry Cohen
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > > *From:* Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > > *To:* Jerry Cohen <jjcohen at prodigy.net>; The International Radiation
> > > Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > > *Sent:* Thu, February 16, 2012 12:22:09 PM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [ RadSafe ] Biogeochemistry
> > >
> > > Dear Jerry:
> > >
> > > It was part of the "Greening of the USGS" which occurred during the
> > > Clinton administration.  Basically, all geologists who were resource
> > > analysts, minerals geologists and their ilk were forced-out of the USGS
> > to
> > > make way for others.
> > >
> > > I am familiar with their work in the 80s, but they all disappeared.
> > >
> > > Dan ii
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Jerry Cohen <jjc105 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Dan,
> > >> Several years ago, as I recall, the USGS, had a group, I believe in
> > >> Denver, who
> > >> studied the health effects of naturally occuring toxic materials
> > (arsenic,
> > >> mercury, radium, etc.) They did some interesting work and published a
> > >> monograph
> > >> on the subject. Somehow this area of study fell out favor and the
> group
> > no
> > >> longer exists. Are you familiar with this work, and do you know what
> > >> happened?
> > >> Jerry Cohen
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________
> > >> From: Dan McCarn <hotgreenchile at gmail.com>
> > >> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics)
> MailingList
> > >> <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
> > >> Sent: Thu, February 16, 2012 3:35:13 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Theme session on Geohealth at the 2012 Rocky
> > >> Mountain
> > >> Section GSA meeting.
> > >>
> > >> Dear Malcolm:
> > >>
> > >> I will be submitting an abstract - I'll have it to you tomorrow.
> > >>
> > >> Dan ii
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 9:27 PM, Dan W McCarn <
> hotgreenchile at gmail.com
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > ** ** ** ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Dear RADSAFE colleagues:****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Malcolm Siegel of the **School** of **Medicine**, ****University**
> of
> > >> **New
> > >> > Mexico**** has asked me to forward the following meeting
> announcement
> > to
> > >> > RADSAFE:  GSA is the Geological Society of America.****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Please respond to Malcolm directly at mdsiegel at unm.edu ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Dan ii -- Dan W McCarn, Geologist ****
> > >> >  ------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Dear Colleagues:****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Please consider submitting an abstract to the following Theme
> Session
> > on
> > >> > Geohealth at the 2012 Rocky Mountain Section GSA meeting.****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > T-5. Arsenic, Uranium and Radionuclides: Geology and Health Impacts
> in
> > >> > the Southwest and Rocky Mountains Convener: Malcolm Siegel, School
> of
> > >> > Medicine, ****University** of **New Mexico********
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Concentrations of carcinogenic arsenic and radium and nephrotoxic
> > >> uranium
> > >> > are naturally high in rocks and waters in many parts of the Navajo
> > >> Nation
> > >> > and in the Southwest and **Rocky Mountain States**. Development of
> > >> > mineral resources and urbanization has led to significant pollution
> in
> > >> > several areas. Populations may be exposed to these substances via
> > >> > inhalation, ingestion and dermal routes. Evaluation of health
> effects
> > >> due
> > >> > to past and potential future exposures has political, social and
> > >> economic
> > >> > implications and requires collaboration among earth scientists,
> civil
> > >> > engineers and health professionals. This session will bring together
> > >> > researchers from academic, government and private agencies to
> examine
> > >> > various dimensions of topics such as past and proposed uranium
> mining
> > >> and
> > >> > the impact of new drinking water regulations for arsenic and
> > >> radionuclides
> > >> > on communities in this area.  The meeting will be held May 9-12 in
> > ****
> > >> > Albuquerque**, **NM****. The link to the meeting is:****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.geosociety.org/Sections/rm/2012mtg/****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Abstracts can be submitted until Feb 14, 2012 at: ****
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.geosociety.org/Sections/rm/2012mtg/techProg.htm****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Please note that I have moved from Sandia National Labs to the
> > >> ****School*
> > >> > * of **Medicine**** at UNM; my new contact information is below.
> > Thank
> > >> > you and Happy New Year.  ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Malcolm   ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >> > Malcolm Siegel, Ph.D., M.P.H. ****
> > >> >
> > >> > Environmental Geochemistry and Epidemiology ****
> > >> >
> > >> > Department of Internal Medicine Division of Epidemiology and
> > >> Biostatistics
> > >> > ****
> > >> >
> > >> > ****University** of **New Mexico**** mdsiegel at unm.edu
> > >> msiegel51 at yahoo.com
> > >> > 505-688-3716****
> > >> >
> > >> > ** **
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Dan ii
> > >>
> > >> Dan W McCarn, Geologist
> > >> 108 Sherwood Blvd
> > >> Los Alamos, NM 87544-3425
> > >> +1-505-672-2014 (Home – New Mexico)
> > >> +1-505-670-8123 (Mobile - New Mexico)
> > >> HotGreenChile at gmail.com (Private email) HotGreenChile at gmail dot
> com
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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