[ RadSafe ] Another recent article
Neil, David M
neildm at id.doe.gov
Wed Jun 6 11:57:26 CDT 2012
Stipulating that LN2 is an energy storage, not an energy producer, if you can get a similar miles-per-gallon energy yield that might be worth consideration.
I don't have a current figure for LN2 cost per gallon, but I recall it being likened to a gallon of milk - which would put it less than or at par to gasoline. Increased volume would possibly reduce this further, and the primary energy could come from any source. This would allow localized production facilities near the consumer, instead of concentrated ones near the production.
Interesting concept.
Dave Neil
DOE-ID Lessons Learned Coordinator
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. - George Santayana
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of JPreisig at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:24 PM
To: radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article
Hmmmmm,
There's always a downside to such a scheme. The downside is that you do considerable work in producing the liquid nitrogen. I'm sure the internet can tell you how liquid nitrogen is made.
Condensed from air??? via cooling????
Joe Preisig
In a message dated 6/5/2012 6:03:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV writes:
Hi Stan.
I haven't collected up any papers, though I've seen a couple over the years. The first time I was introduced to the idea was at a convention where a University of Washington professor gave a presentation on some work he was doing. He was using a small automobile engine (old VW Bug, if I recall), in which liquid nitrogen was squirted into the cylinders where it vaporized and pushed the pistons. He used the outside world as a heat source, and
the trick was keeping the engine warm enough. Obviously there are better
designs possible for harvesting this energy.
Liquefied nitrogen has a much higher energy density than pressurized gas, and is actually easier and safer to store (and much safer than gasoline or electricity). It is not as safe as water pumped to a height, but is much more portable.
I am sure there are technical difficulties that were glossed over (but nothing like the "if we get enough helium-3 fusion will be a snap!" crowd), but really, what's not to like about liquid nitrogen?
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Stan Morton
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 9:44 AM
To: 'The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article
Dr. Brennan,
Do you have a reference for the liquid nitrogen technology?
Respectfully,
Stan Morton
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brennan, Mike (DOH)
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:26 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article
One of the slickest energy storage systems I've seen involves liquefying nitrogen. The tech is mature and well understood, the energy density compares with batteries, and it has useful byproducts (filtering the air, producing compressed oxygen, etc). It is also pretty safe, compared to a lot of other energy sources (a leak puts out fires, rather than feeds them). It is not, however, flashy, and so isn't receiving much attention).
-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of ROY HERREN
Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 5:32 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article
It appears that the peak energy storage conundrum isn't unique to Solar photovoltaic energy production.
http://www.anl.gov/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2012/05/30/wind-power-may-not-reduce
-carbon-emissions-argonne/
5/30/2012 @ 2:07PM |2,515 views
Wind Power May Not Reduce Carbon Emissions As Expected: Argonne "Argonne researchers are working on one possible solution to this problem:
batteries that can store wind power for use when the wind stops blowing—as well as store solar energy for use at night". Roy Herren
________________________________
From: Jeff Terry <terryj at iit.edu>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Sat, June 2, 2012 4:10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article
Solar thermal at least has some built-in storage capacity. One would think that that would play some role.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 2, 2012, at 5:57 PM, ROY HERREN <royherren2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/40460/?p1=A3
>
> I think it's interesting that China's "investment" into solar
electricity
> generation has had such a disruptive effect in the market place. "Even
as the
> project nears completion, the future of solar thermal power plants is in
doubt.
>
> That’s in large part because prices for solar panels—which convert
sunlight to
> electricity directly—have dropped quickly in the last few years, causing
at
> least one company to abandon plans to build solar thermal plants in
favor of
> making ones that use solar panels". I think that it's important to
remember
> that Solyndra didn't go bankrupt because of a technology failure in
their
>design
>
> or product, but rather they went bankrupt because they couldn't compete
on a
> financial basis with the downward spiral in the price of solar panels
being
> shipped to the US from China. Only time will tell which technology will
win
>out
>
> in the long run. I am forever reminded of the battle between and Sony
and the
> other electronic manufactures over Beta vs. VHS video tape decks. The
> "so-called" better technology lost out to the power of the majority of
the
> market place. The amusing thing is that today the consumer market for
video
> tape decks is all but dead. My but the market and the technology hawked
there
> is a fickle place. How will Nuclear Power, fission, fare in the long
run? Is
> there any chance the Chinese government can be talked into investing
billions
>of
>
> dollars into Nuclear Power and thereby reducing the price of global
Nuclear
> Power? If so, would we trust the reliability of Chinese manufactured
> Nuclear Power plants? If there is a question of trustworthiness, why
are
> consumers trusting the reliability of Chinese manufactured photovoltaic
solar
> panels?
> Roy Herren
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