Re: RADSAFE digest 3062

[Magnu96196@aol.com]

In a message dated 4/4/00 5:36:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
radsafe@romulus.ehs.uiuc.edu writes:

<<  Well, if we really can't tell the difference between fresh andirradiated 
food (and I suspect you're right-we can't), that's when we'rereally in 
trouble.  Whilst they'll religiously label things at first, it'sinevitable 
that things will start to slip after a few years.  Then they'llbe selling us 
old food that looks like fresh food, and no-one will be ableto tell.  Why do 
you think they want this? It's to increase the shelf lifeof foods of course.    
If you wrap a potato in clear plastic, and put it in a warmsupermarket under 
bright lights, it will go green and start to sprout withindays.  If you keep 
it cool, in the dark, it will last for months.  It's justunnecessary to go 
blasting it with gamma rays to achieve the same ends.   There's a great deal 
of interest in the free-radical mopping-upability of various foods (prunes 
come out best!).  This is because, as we'veseen in other threads, our DNA is 
under constant attack from metabolicallyinduced free radicals, which seems to 
be the favourite ultimate cause ofaging at the moment.  Now if we expose 
foods to high doses of radiation,free radicals are formed within the foods.  
Admittedly the vast bulk ofthese do not persist for more than a fleeting 
moment, BUT- are we not usingup the free-radical mopping up ability of the 
food?   Personal thoughts only, keith.bradshaw@nnc.co.uk >>
=========

Good points on longer shelf life and potenial for poorer foods.

One thing to interject, is that one gets free radical [which won't last long] 
and free radical products [which do].    A report published in HPJ on 
hyperoxygen generation from radiation using LASER flow cytometry showed that 
these products traveled thru cells walls, into and out of-----which means 
they can get to the mitochondrial zones.    These hyperoxygen free radicals 
and products can last a while-----you don't always get back to the original 
compounds or molecules.   A free radical interaction with DNA produces long 
term damage effects, and one must suspect that the higher the 
electronegativity of the radical the less likely it'll get fixed.

The effects of free radicals on cells always gets into the mitochondrial 
damage effects, which are linked to aging, all kinds of illness and disease.  
 This because the mitochondria are the most exposed cell DNA, making it 
easily attacked by oxidants, from radiation generated radicals or of 
chemicals.     Now, there are many cites as to the mitochondrial regions 
being first affected with oxidants and their connections to aging and 
disease--one the general internet searches, and on MEDLINE.

In areas like Oak Ridge, where the workers are telling of sustained UF-6 and  
of HF releases and ills like arthritus and asthma also get into this 
connection.   Fluorides in the body form compounds as iodine would, they are 
both halogens.   Fluorides, since they do this have uptake in the thyroid and 
parathyroid, and they damage the thryroid gland and parathyroid.   Pleanty of 
MEDLINE cites show this effect-----search for "fluorides and thyroid."

Now the follow on question is, we know the thyroid regulates cell metabolusm 
with iodine release.   And the first connection is the fluorine toxic effects 
on the thyroid will affect the iodine regulation of this gland.    The follow 
on question is-----we also know the immune system activates on oxidation 
products or free radical affecting cells and this tends to pull damaged cell 
contents into the lymph nodes, via the actions of macrophages.   This effect 
makes for higher levels of contaminates, like toxic metals and oxidants, F, 
Cl, Be, etc. in this area, which may in turn first affect the mitochondria.  
The easiest place to see this action is MEDLINE cites on Be in lung lymph 
nodes.

   So, a question arises, will this increased concentration effect of 
oxidative toxic material in the lymph nodes affect the mitochodria, so as to 
slow the cells energy production and performance.    Then how does this 
process link to illness potential?   Is this a reason why some have problems 
with EBV or CMV and the connections to CFS and other ills.     The workers of 
OR and their doctors certainly say they have these ills, CFS like symptoms, 
presence of CMV, as well as high calcium [parathroid connection], nervious 
system impairment, joint and bone pain, severe fatigue, arthritus, and asthma 
like ills ----all in abundance.     It looks like the effects from the 
aluminum industry low level pot line exposures to HF, yes, these are on 
MEDLINE studies also.

So, "free radicals" and free radical products-----which might linger longer 
and affect DNA-----------have these been investigated in the long term.       
 Or are we making for new news on mysterious diseases--------unexplained due 
to short sighted needs to do only epi studies to see how many died or were 
disease ridden.

Interesting point on not being able to tell the diffence with taste.   Seems 
like we also jumped onto the freon bandwagon too-------only to find that UVb, 
c decomposed the stuff, and that it was not inert, as claimed, and now drives 
the ozone hole effects and some new kinds of CL and F products in the upper 
atmosphere----that most likely fall down here with us also.    F and Cl 
products from radiolysis with UVb,c, are those problems now?

Jim Phelps, downwind of the toxic superfund site of Oak Ridge
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