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CS-137 in the Black Sea Salt. RE(2): Dateline NBC TMI story A
Dimiter,
You are right, about K-40 and also it has higher
gamma energy than Cs-137.
To me, it is surprising that some people continue
"I belive ONLY when my instrument's needle move
up than I say here is radiation"
"Chernobyl Plant instruments
during/after the accident showed "ZEROs"...
Why?
Because there was no radiation?
No.
Because
Nobody was expecting so high levels that
instruments counting circuitry elements
saturated/piled up.
As far as I am concern there could be simply
burned out electronics, aspecially with some
newer computer chip technology stuff.
I am surprised that such thing as transport of
Cs-137 needs to be proved with the ABSOLUTE
accuracy.
1. Obviously, there are cases when we CAN say
that if Cs-137 was in the reactor's fall out and
water runs out into the Sea => Cs-137 SHELL be in
the Sea water => Sea salt
WHY???
BECAUSE
2. There is the Universal LAW of conservation of
MATTER and it is stating that MATTER can not
vanish but only can change its form.
I have not heard of any Black Sea's regional
relativistic phenomenas other than Isotopic
spontaneous decay.
So if Cs-137 went in there then it is in the Sea
water => Sea Salt (period)
It is probably, impossible to see any Cs-134
after so many years of decaying with such low
initial concentrations because of the huge
dilution, to determine the exact Cesium origin.
3. Concentrations of Cs-137 should be negligible
=> from the health hazard side it does NOT MATTER
how low was LLD/MDA of your spectrometer. NOBODY
CAN dink/eat so much of that water/salt to get
exposed to CS-137 to the "levels of health
concern" Nor to get any considerable level of
external exposure.
4. LLD will be the most important part if we are
writing the reports....:-)
For the quality analysis, who cares?
I too played with many instruments, for many
years and I also do not remember all LLD's and
MDA's.
5. For me, the instrument is not as important as
user which used it.
We all can have the best instruments in our
possession but users who are just looking into
the numbers can do not much if they see no big
picture.
I am more interested in the big picture, so I may
forget small details.
Or may be I am becoming just too old? :-)
6. Of course, as professionals, we are ALWAYS???
need to watch out for our selves for scenarios
like "how to defend our data or how to attack the
opponent" :-)
But sometimes it becomes too silly..fellas.
We are not on the symposium here, right?
It is a discussion list, only.
7. You are right if World Bank/IAEA/NATO/EU or
other national organization have money for
research of the Cs-137 in the Black Sea's Salt,
you could do that work for them, since, you live
there and know the area, know equipment and have
the expertise.
So if some people have doubts about the Cs-137
origin, then they need to help you to get a grand
money for the project.
But I still doubt that Cs-134 could be seeing.
May be transuranics could show something?
Who knows...
So who gonna pay to satisfy peoples curiosity?
Happy week to everyone,
Emil.
Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 1:23:51 +0300
From: Dimiter Popoff <tgi@cit.bg>
Subject: Re: RE(2): Dateline NBC TMI story A
different evaluation
Franz,
>Where is the prove? Is there really a salt
industry on the Black Sea?
No proof. Did I claim any?
There is a salt industry on the Black Sea - the
main one around.
I expect my playing experiment can be easily
repeated - probably with the
very same results - by anyone interested (which I
was not at the time when
I conducted it). As I said, I was just playing
around with a detector. I
am only a high-tech guru designing and
programming the electronics which
people use to measure stuff like that.
>... You did not determine the Cs-137
quantitatively.
No, I did not. I just had no source to make
efficiency calibration for it at
the moment, nor did I want to do it.
> You had no shielding around your detector!!!!!
This fact gives significant quantitative
information in the given context
to any user of spectroscopy equipment I know.
Sorry you missed it.
>... Whereever you do any gamma-measurements in
the field you will find
>Cs-137 in the background, whether you measure
salt or anything else.
Oh the 137Cs peak was not there with the
K-enriched salt, as I mentioned.
And it was there allright when I put the
Bulgarian salt bag, which
comes with a 95% (my estimate) probability from
the Black Sea.
>... Do you want to say, that Black Sea Salt -
though
>you do not even know, whether you measured some
- contains Chernobyl Cs-137?
I want to say what I already said - the Black Sea
may well contain Chernobyl
137Cs. I am not interested in further accuracy or
proof. If anybody is, I would
be glad to assist in any way I can.
>I really do not understand what your message is!
I hope I made it a little clearer for you now. We
all go after the absolute
truth, and eventually we learn that we are
unlikely to seek it. However,
we work with plenty of information of no absolute
certainty - this is how
we seem to be designed and this is what we
certainly have to do because
of so much knowledge we miss. Therefore, I
considered it apropriate
to share this experience of mine to the list.
One thing I am sure about is that while I may
have posted some off-topic
messages there are others who have posted
definitely a lot more of them.
Regards,
Dimiter
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