RE: CS-137 in the Black Sea Salt. RE(2): Dateline NBC TMI story A

["Stokes, James" <StokesJ@TTNUS.COM>]

 Food for thought:  How much of that Cs-137 came from U.S. submarine

discharges?  If anyone says, "None", they are probably kidding themselves.



-----Original Message-----

From: Emil Murat

To: radsafe

Cc: tgi@cit.bg

Sent: 8/22/01 7:02 AM

Subject: CS-137 in the Black Sea Salt. RE(2): Dateline NBC TMI story A 



Dimiter,





You are right, about K-40 and also it has higher

gamma energy than Cs-137.



To me, it is surprising that some people continue

"I belive ONLY when my instrument's needle move

up than I say here is radiation"





"Chernobyl Plant instruments

during/after the accident showed  "ZEROs"...



Why? 

Because there was no radiation?

No.

Because 

Nobody was expecting so high levels that

instruments counting circuitry elements

saturated/piled up.

As far as I am concern there could be simply

burned out electronics, aspecially with some

newer computer chip technology stuff.





I am surprised that such thing as  transport of

Cs-137 needs to be proved with the ABSOLUTE

accuracy.



1. Obviously, there are cases when we CAN say

that if Cs-137 was in the reactor's fall out and

water runs out into the Sea => Cs-137 SHELL be in

the Sea water => Sea salt



WHY???



BECAUSE



2. There is the Universal LAW of conservation of

MATTER  and it is stating that MATTER can not

vanish but only can change its form.



I have not heard of any Black Sea's regional

relativistic phenomenas other than Isotopic

spontaneous decay.

So if Cs-137 went in there then it is in the Sea

water => Sea Salt (period)



It is probably, impossible to see any Cs-134

after so many years of decaying with such low

initial concentrations because of the huge

dilution, to determine the exact Cesium origin.





3. Concentrations of Cs-137 should be negligible

=> from the health hazard side it does NOT MATTER

how low was LLD/MDA of your spectrometer. NOBODY

CAN dink/eat so much of that water/salt to get

exposed to CS-137 to the "levels of health

concern" Nor to get any considerable level of

external exposure. 



4. LLD will be the most important part if we are

writing the reports....:-)



For the quality analysis, who cares?

I too played with many instruments, for many

years and I also do not remember all LLD's and

MDA's.



5. For me, the instrument is not as important as

user which used it. 

We all can have the best instruments in our

possession but users who are just looking into

the numbers can do not much if they see no big

picture. 

I am more interested in the big picture, so I may

forget small details.

Or may be I am becoming just too old? :-)



6. Of course, as professionals, we are ALWAYS???

need to watch out for our selves for scenarios

like "how to defend our data or how to attack the

opponent" :-)



But sometimes it becomes too silly..fellas.

We are not on the symposium here, right?

It is a discussion list, only.





7. You are right if World Bank/IAEA/NATO/EU or

other national organization have money for

research of the Cs-137 in the Black Sea's Salt,

you could do that work for them, since, you live

there and know the area, know equipment and have

the expertise.

So if some people have doubts about the Cs-137

origin, then they need to help you to get a grand

money for the project.



But I still doubt that Cs-134 could be seeing.

May be transuranics could show something?

Who knows...



So who gonna pay to satisfy peoples curiosity?



Happy week to everyone,



Emil. 







Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 1:23:51 +0300

From: Dimiter Popoff <tgi@cit.bg>

Subject: Re: RE(2): Dateline NBC TMI story A 

different evaluation



Franz,



>Where is the prove? Is there really a salt 

industry on the Black Sea?



 No proof. Did I claim any?

 There is a salt industry on the Black Sea - the 

main one around.

I expect my playing experiment can be easily 

repeated - probably with the

very same results - by anyone interested (which I



was not at the time when

I conducted it). As I said, I was just playing 

around with a detector. I

am only a high-tech guru designing and 

programming the electronics which

people use to measure stuff like that.  



>... You did not determine the Cs-137 

quantitatively.



No, I did not. I just had no source to make 

efficiency calibration for it at

the moment, nor did I want to do it.



> You had no shielding around your detector!!!!! 



This fact gives significant quantitative 

information in the given context

to any user of spectroscopy equipment I know. 

Sorry you missed it.



>... Whereever you do any gamma-measurements in 

the field you will find

>Cs-137 in the background, whether you measure 

salt or anything else. 



Oh the 137Cs peak was not there with the 

K-enriched salt, as I mentioned.

And it was there allright when I put the 

Bulgarian salt bag, which

comes with a 95% (my estimate) probability from 

the Black Sea.



>... Do you want to say, that Black Sea Salt - 

though

>you do not even know, whether you measured some 

- contains Chernobyl Cs-137?



I want to say what I already said - the Black Sea



may well contain Chernobyl 

137Cs. I am not interested in further accuracy or



proof. If anybody is, I would

be glad to assist in any way I can. 



>I really do not understand what your message is!



I hope I made it a little clearer for you now. We



all go after the absolute

truth, and eventually we learn that we are 

unlikely to seek it. However,

we work with plenty of information of no absolute



certainty - this is how

we seem to be designed and this is what we 

certainly have to do because

of so much knowledge we miss. Therefore, I 

considered it apropriate

to share this experience of mine to the list. 

One thing I am sure about is that while I may 

have posted some off-topic 

messages there are others who have posted 

definitely a lot more of them. 



Regards,



Dimiter





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