RE: Fwd: CNRS position (questions)

["Marco Caceci" <mcaceci@radal.com>]

Dear Emil:



you got no reply from Orsay? let me answer you then.



The position offered is a CR2. CR stands for Chargé de Recherche. This is an

entry level position, below Maitre and Director but above the Attaché label

in the pyramid scheme of CNRS (France's National Center for Scientific

Research) career. The pay is lousy, but you are not just 'attached', you are

at least 'charged' with doing something. The good side is that you become an

employee of the French state, you have the option of getting your paycheck

at home and you can do your work at the corner bistro sipping Pernod. You

cannot be fired and only idiots (like yours truly) ever quit. The lab is

reachable from Paris by Metro (RER). The south Banlieu is nice.



The posting gives quite a lot of information, it only needs deconstruction.

Too bad the English is poor ('the aim of this project concerns the

improvement of extraction and radionuclides separation procedures...'.

Reminds me of a comment I heard (which is not always true but I find funny):

"The French are the best second class scientists in the world".  The French

will forgive me. Will they? Knowledge of the specific lab and of the French

research environment helps. Let me have some fun and dig out my rusted

tomahawk.



In France, in nuclear/radio chemical research, the money and the brains are

with the CEA and its peripherals (ANDRA, Framatome, etc.). The CEA always

needs new blood (French blood preferably: they are 50% military), hence they

gladly encourage the public instruction and research sectors to do nuclear

things: they do so, for example, by forking money indeed generously. They

closed their research labs closest to Paris, and it is hard to convince

students to move to the countryside.



Little problem number one is that in the French CNRS (and, for that matter,

French universities) nobody has done serious research in nuclear chemistry

for the past generation. I refer to the chemistry they wish they could do

now in Orsay: there may be geniuses there in positronium chemistry or

whatever for all I know.

Now look at Orsay. The recently-ex-patron, a turkey called Guillaumont, was

supposed to be a radiochemist; what he was good at was politics: he managed

to have most competing labs closed or neutralized. Having played too many

dirty tricks on too many good people, all decent folks in the community (in

France and abroad) systematically ignored him; the CEA only gave him

peanuts, when he begged. Locate, if you want fun, any of his own papers: a

good one he wrote explained why tracer nuclides behaved funny in his lab...

Anyhow, Guillaumont has now gone to a well deserved retirement and his

protégé and dolphin Francois David (another self-anointed radiochemist) has

been (unnecessarily) neutralized - this lesser bird's mayor contribution to

science being publishing for thirty years the same paper on AmCl3

conductivity.

The people now finally in charge of radiochemistry at the Orsay

Radiochemistry lab (Michel Genet, Solange Hubert) have a reputation for

being decent, but know little or nothing of radiochemistry - nor,

fortunately, anybody expects them to. They have certainly seen the

opportunity of doing radio/nuclear chemistry research and get all those fat

CEA checks (Brussels really is too hard to reach) hence they are looking for

somebody to do the work for them. That is good. They cannot just hire

somebody's copine, the funding is discretionary, papers must be written,

maybe now they can be invited to speak at congresses at last...

Note that the Orsay Radiochemistry lab is part of the Nuclear Physics

Institute: nobody there ever really cared what they do, and what indeed they

do well anyhow (chapeau to Krupa) has always been optics and solid state

physics (see http://ipnweb.in2p3.fr/~bibli/publi.html), certainly not

radiochemistry.



Little problem number two is now that nobody in France who knows anything in

radiochemistry would work there, the reputation of the lab is tainted

(Guillaumont and David never got anything serious done, they lost most

funding channels, and their students, some of which were good and smart, all

went into production, not into research, as far as I know), and anyhow if

you know your actinides you can work at CEA for better pay and much less

static. Hence the posting on RADSAFE. A hint of desperation there. And note

that the lab is all French. Which reminds me that this is probably the only

French lab where a technician (Gregoire was his name) was ever fired:

everybody knew he was a thief, a legend in his own time, somebody even

reported him in writing, but who cares? he survived many more years, till he

built his new house with the lab's money and was ready to retire.



So, the job is to produce scientific papers related to actinide chemistry.

It must be fundamental research with industrial applications: never heard

anybody say their research will not have industrial applications, nor bear

fundamental interest... Be advised (as I was in time) that in France, when

producing a proposal, you must state that your work will be novel, but at

the same time that the results will be such and such, because someone else

has done it before, preferably in the US.

Under new management, this lab can - and should - get lots of funding from

CEA and friends if they can demonstrate that they can train their students

well into the arts of actinide aqueous chemistry and of fuel reprocessing.



They mention Purex because the CEA, who funds, is still using it in

reprocessing; they cite electrochemistry because they have beaten that old

horse to death in the seventies and it's their only claim to fame. Russia is

cited since some there (Hussonnois) have kept connections with Russia for

many years. Incidentally, communists are welcome, they cannot climb the

ladder hence they remain competent for a longer time.



I suppose one can get by with the job by doing what everybody has been doing

forever and ever: mix a solution of salt and water plus a radioelement of

choice with your dirt of choice, filter, measure how much activity is lost,

and publish a distribution constant. Variations are unlimited. Avoid

brilliance. See: "Investigation of 137Cs+, 85Sr2+ and 241Am3+ ion exchange

on thorium phosphate hydrogenphosphate and their immobilization in the

thorium phosphate diphosphate" by Erwan Pichot, Nicolas Dacheux, Vladimir

Brandel, <Michel Genet>, http://jas.rsc.org/ej/NJ/2000/B006022O/index.htm.



A word of caution: no stranger ever prospered in the CNRS. At least in

scientific fields. You cannot climb the ladder (how dare you boss them?),

you cannot play politics as well as they do, and if you find a lab, funding,

and good people to work with, somebody will get upset - maybe the president

(director?) of CNRS himself will ask you to stop and please do nothing: that

happened to me: I finished, published and quit, and he was eventually

fired - no doubt with pay. I do not know if the new CNRS bosses (they change

every few months) are any better.



So the little problem number three is the same as in so many institutions:

incompetent people need competent people, but they would never consider

allowing new hirelings command resources or - godforbid - work and publish

without their permission. Genet may be OK, from what I see he may be smart

enough to let people work and just add his name to their papers. But they

are hiring at entry level, when what they expect is specific competence and

what they need is guidance from somebody with experience and acceptable to

the international community.

Consider that these people have survived thirty years of mismanagement,

infight, and ostracism. Stepping in could be dangerous for a person's health

and career.

This being said, I wish them luck. I know there are good people in there,

whose names I cannot cite now to avoid them reprisals.



And now for your questions:



1. Is this project aiming for the "safer" waste management.



But of course... we are all so concerned... Norm, say we all need more

research, please.

This is not a project, it is a position. There may be specific projects

providing extra expense money. In France they are not trained to run

projects, but to hold jobs. Try explain them the concept of budgets,

flowcharts, deliverables and deadlines.



2. What are the "special" hazards or disposal difficulties, associated with

these nuclides being together in the waste stream?



Mo and Zr behavior may be of interest in reprocessing (Ru even more,

actually, but too difficult)

Tc in waste repository, when 620010 years from now water gets in.

Interesting chemistry, would be nice to get it well handled in Purex too.



3. Are there specific REGULATORY disposal difficulties associated with these

nuclides being together?



No. They are together because they share the property of being fashionable.



4. Is there a "mixed waste" problem?



there is one if you can make money with it.



5. Separation of Tc, Mo, Se, Zr,Sn FROM Uranium?



Problem one: separation from U and Pu streams in Purex.

Problem two, maybe: separation from each other and other elements within

waste in Purex tail end

Problem three: immobilization in geomaterials

Problem four: prediction of their migration in the environment

They just mixed it all up in the call



6. If so wouldn't be it more effective to use at first, mass separation in

the centrifuge and then further electrochemical separation one from another?



My advise: forget centrifuge, electrochemistry nice idea, most people play

with solvent extraction and solid phase sorption.



7. Is there only Extraction/Separation of mentioned nuclides and their

SEPARATE disposal?



? maybe



8. Extraction/Separation and Recycling?



wouldn't that be nice!



9. If there is recycling involved what is your projected "effective cost" ?



does anybody care?



10. What are the monetary savings in your project from the separate

disposal/recycling versus simple combined disposal?



ditto



I am assuming, Uranium is the main bulk material.



plus Zr and Pu, and fission products



11. Is French the project's language?



You also have the option of listening to them practicing their English...

some find it funny.



12. I really appreciate that forwarded by you positing had project's

specific technical information.

However, the salary (financial compensation) number would be a very helpful

factor in a candidate search efforts.



See above



Anybody considering this position is advised to contact me personally for

additional advise.



Salut les degats!



NOTE:

This e-mail is not public information but a private communication between

myself and my friends and members of the radiochemistry community, being, I

presume, relevant to their professional concerns.

I hereby do expressly forbid forwarding this message to other destinations.

Lest I be misunderstood...





Dr Marco Caceci

Principal

LQC s.l.

Noorderbrink 26

2553 GB Den Haag

The Netherlands

Tel + 31 70 397 5653



>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [fr] (Win95; U)

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>Date:         Fri, 16 Nov 2001 14:39:43 +0100

>Reply-To: liste de distribution pour les RADIOCHIMISTEs <RADCH-L@in2p3.fr>,

>        Solange Hubert <shubert@IPNO.IN2P3.FR>

>Sender: liste de distribution pour les RADIOCHIMISTEs <RADCH-L@in2p3.fr>

>From: Solange Hubert <shubert@IPNO.IN2P3.FR>

>Organization: IPN Orsay

>Subject:      CNRS position

>To: RADCH-L@in2p3.fr

>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ccmail.in2p3.fr id

OAA48590

>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by

soleil.irccyn.ec-nantes.fr id PAA20387

>

>Bonjour,

>

>A CNRS position CR2 is open for the radiochemistry group of the Institut

>de Physique Nucléaire at Orsay.

>

>Nature and scope of the job : Speciation of actinides and fission

>products- nuclear waste management.

>

>This poject concerns the speciation of Tc, Mo, Se, Zr, and Sn, their

>interactions with some actinides of which uranium. The methods used in

>this frame are mainly electrochemistry ( voltampérometry,

>inpedencemetrie, etc), capillary electrophoresis, spectroscopy

>(fluorescence, SAX).

>

> The aim of this project concerns the improvement of extraction and

>radionuclides separation procedures  ( PUREX, environnmental ).  We need

>to  improve the chemical properties knowledge of these ions in aqueous

>media.

>

>This project is developped in collaboration with CEA and several

>international laboratories of which the Institut of Physic and Chemistry

>of Moscou.

>

>The candidates can contact for more informations:

>

>Mme Solange HUBERT

>Institut de Physique Nucléaire

>RADIOCHIMIE

>91406-ORSAY

>Tel: 01-6915-7344

>ou   01-6915-7157

>E-mail; shubert@ipno.in2p3.fr

>

>The dateline of the CNRS dossiers is 15th of january.

>

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=

Jean-Charles ABBE

Délégation CNRS

IRCCyN

1, Rue de la Noë

BP 92101

44321 Nantes cedex 3



Tel : 02 51 12 45 16

Fax :  02 51 81 05 77



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