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Re: Welcome to California



Yes, I was being sarcastic to some extent and have enjoyed the clever

responses.  I am aware of using very thin detectors and the use of

discrimination to reduce the signal/background ratio.  I intuitively knew

that state-of-the-art field detection instruments could not distinguish

contamination at the 1 in 1,000,000 risk level.  Thanks to some rough

calculations by Jerry Cohen, we can see it is indeed impossible to detect

0.8 microrem in a 20 microrem field.  This is further complicated by the 20

microrem background varying by plus or minus 5 microrem through out the day.



 What was not intuitively obvious to me at the time I posted here was that

state-of-the-art laboratory detection equipment could not detect most of the

commonly encountered radiological contamination at the 1 in 1,000,000 risk

level either.  Not with an acceptable certainty anyway.  In fact, laboratory

detection of many radionuclides is difficult at risk levels in the 1 in

10,000 to 1 in 1,000,000 range.  I suppose that is why the DOE and NRC

standards are based on lifetime risk that range from 2 in 1,000 to 3 in

10,000.  These risk levels produce clean-up standard we can actually detect

in the lab and sometimes the field.  An interesting perspective I have found

was that the EPA's cancer risk from background radiation is (theoretically)

1 in 100.



Someone shared a Website that addresses these proposed bills and the

irrational consequences of the proposed legislation.  It is:



http://www.philrutherford.com/2002_Legislation.html





Carl Speer

Real-Time Radiological Services, Inc.

www.realtimerad.com







-----Original Message-----

From: Redmond, Randy (RXQ) <RXQ@Y12.doe.gov>

To: radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu <radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu>

Date: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:20 AM

Subject: RE: Welcome to California





>Folks - the man is being sarcastic.

>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: Wes Van Pelt [SMTP:wesvanpelt@ATT.NET]

>> Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 6:49 PM

>> To: Speercl; BLHamrick@AOL.COM; radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

>> Subject: RE: Welcome to California

>>

>> Carl,

>>

>> The first thing to do is state in detail the question you wish to answer

>> by doing a gamma scan over a large area. By your last sentence, it

appears

>> you want to measure the extent of residual contamination that produces a

>> cancer risk of 1 in 1,000,000. This requires dose modeling, including

>> ingestion of vegetables grown on the land, drinking water from wells,

>> drinking cow's milk, breathing airborne dust, as well as direct gamma

>> exposure. But this is quite easy using commonly available environmental

>> dose codes.

>>

>> Then just equate radiation dose to cancer risk using the Linear

>> Non-Threshold theory. (Please, no flames.)

>>

>> The big problem, as I see it, is determining the depth over which the

>> residual contamination is spread.  For example, does it go down 4 inches

>> of 4 feet? And how is it distributed by depth? The only way I know to

>> determine this is to drill holes and analyze the core samples for

>> radionuclide concentration and also doing down-hole gamma readings. This

>> gets expensive and requires a lot of drill holes.

>>

>> Regards,

>> Wes

>>

>> Wesley R. Van Pelt, PhD, CIH, CHP

>> Wesley R. Van Pelt Associates, Inc.

>> Consulting in Radiation Safety and Environmental Radioactivity.

>> <http://home.att.net/~wesvanpelt/Radiation.html>

>> <mailto:wesvanpelt@att.net>

>>

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

>> [mailto:owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu]On Behalf Of Speercl

>> Sent: Friday, May 31, 2002 10:36 PM

>> To: BLHamrick@AOL.COM; radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu

>> Subject: Re: Welcome to California

>>

>> I am in the beginning stages of starting my own business of performing

>> radiation scanning surveys of large land areas.  If I was to perform

gamma

>> surveys for license termination in California, what would be the "best"

>> technology available to perform these surveys?  I know sampling will have

>> to be done and can be counted on a HPGe, REGe or the like, but what about

>> land area scanning?  Typically in the past 2 x 2 NaI detectors were used,

>> and large area plastic scintillator (LAPS) detectors are comparable, but

>> the "Best" is . . . .?  I have thought about getting a 4 x 4 x 4 NaI but

>> then a 4 x 4 x 16 NaI would be better. . .then four 4x4x16 NaI detectors

>> would be better still.  But then this large of a detector array would

mean

>> I would be averaging a point source over the field of view of the

detector

>> system . . . I run into the same line of thinking when I try to figure

out

>> how fast to scan.  I typically take a moving one second count with a LAPS

>> using a GPS, but wouldn't a one minute static count be better before

>> moving on?  What detector and scanning method is out there that can

>> measure gamma emitting radioisotopes to a 1 in a 1,000,000 cancer risk?

>>

>>

>> Carl Speer

>> Real-time Radiological Services, Inc

>> Las Vegas, NV

>> 702-639-0066

>> www.realtimerad.com <http://www.realtimerad.com>

>>

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