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Re: Concrete Ecologic Example Myth



	I don't see why any of the discussion below prevents you from

making up a concrete hypothetical example.



Bernard L. Cohen

Physics Dept.

University of Pittsburgh

Pittsburgh, PA 15260

Tel: (412)624-9245

Fax: (412)624-9163

e-mail: blc@pitt.edu

web site: http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc



On Fri, 20 Jun 2003 epirad@mchsi.com wrote:



> Kai,

>

> I know we have gone through discussions about the limitations of ecologic

> studies many times but there are some points that a few radsafers continue to

> miss.

>

> You suggested the other day putting an upper limit on the error from an

> ecologic study.  Unfortuantely, this is not easy to do since the error in

> ecologic studies is unbounded.

>

> Others problems to keep in mind -

>

> 1) It is not possible to identify empirical sources of ecologic bias from

> aggregate data alone. Researchers must rely on prior knowledge of intergroup

> variation in the distribution of other risk factors and effect modifiers.

> We don't know this inter group variation for Dr. Cohen's data nor has he

> adjusted for it.

>

> 2) Factors responsible for ecologic bias may not be confounders or effect

> modifiers at the individual level and that identifying the bias is even more

> difficult because factors may not even “appear” to be confounders or modifiers

> at the ecologic level.

>

> 3) Ecologic biases can even reverse the direction of an observed association,

> especially when the range of average exposure levels across groups is small or

> the exposure under study is not a strong risk factor regardless even if you are

> using an ecologic study to test the LNT.

>

> 4) If cross level bias is occurring (which we know it is), ecologic data can

> not be successfully used to adjust for ecologic bias.

>

> Many examples have been given on how Dr. Cohen's data can be biased and since

> Cohen will use his own faulty data to test the "concrete" example; providing

> a "concrete" example is doing no more than providing an explanation Cohen will

> use his own faulty data to negate.  So, the circle will never end.

> > Friends,

>

> > We are all aware that ecological studies have some limitations - these issues have been discussed (some would say ad

> > infinitum) on this board and elsewhere.

>

>



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