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Re: Nuclear Power Des NOT Need Gobal Warming Hoax!



  I am not a proponent of science-by-plebiscite, but I think we are missing

the point on  the objective of the 17,000 signature petition. This objective

is not to prove or disprove global warming phenomena. Most of the public and

just about all of the news media believe  a pending global warming

catastrophe to be a God-given fact. Perhaps if that faith can be shaken a

little,  related policies could become more rational.







  ----- Original Message -----

  From: John Jacobus <crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM>

  To: Fritz A. Seiler <faseiler@NMIA.COM>; John Fleck

<jfleck@abqjournal.com>; <radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu>

  Cc: RISKANAL Mailinglist <riskanal@lyris.pnl.gov>; Joseph L. Alvarez

<jalvarez@auxier.com>

  Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:50 AM

  Subject: RE: Nuclear Power Des NOT Need Gobal Warming Hoax!





  > Hi, Fritz,

  > Thanks for the comments.

  > Like you, I am not a climitologists.  Consequently,

  > who should I believe?

  > My impression is that there has been a great deal of

  > problems with climate data collection, analysis and

  > model.  There have been a number of reports

  > commissioned on the subject.

  >

http://lab.nap.edu/nap-cgi/discover.cgi?act=dourl&restric=NAP&url=.nap.edu/o

penbook/0309068916/html/index.html

  >  Can they all be wrong?  Could the data be getting

  > better, and the models more accuarte?

  >

  > I still question the determination of scientific

  > issues by signing petitions.  What if 34,000 science

  > sign a petition that global warming exists?  Who would

  > you believe?

  >

  > --- "Fritz A. Seiler" <faseiler@NMIA.COM> wrote:

  > > Hi John,

  > >

  > > I am one of these 17,000 signatories of the OISM

  > > petition.  I

  > > am not a climatologist, I am just a scientist.

  > > Actually, I grew up

  > > as a nuclear physicist who has now been dabbling in

  > > risk assessment

  > > for 25 years.  However, what I think that I have in

  > > common with the

  > > other signatories of the petition is a certain

  > > amount of skepticism

  > > for the loud and brash claims of climatologists

  > > whose huge computer

  > > models do not fit what we already know by experience

  > > and that is how

  > > El Nino and La Nina affect the winter weather in the

  > > U.S.

  > > Some months ago, Jim Dukelow pointed out to me that

  > > the Global

  > > Circulation Models now actually show currents such

  > > as the Southern

  > > Oscillation that is associated with El Nino or La

  > > Nina.  I read that

  > > also elsewhere and find it encouraging. But I am

  > > still waiting for

  > > the loud shout of "Eureka!" that would have

  > > announced that they now

  > > can correlate the winter weather in the U.S. with

  > > the events in the

  > > Southern Hemisphere.  Right now, I am still willing

  > > to listen but I

  > > am not holding my breath!

  > > At this time, I am still skeptical about scientists

  > > who make

  > > claims about effects such as man-made Global Warming

  > > which are minor

  > > compared to other well established weather effects.

  > > Their models do

  > > not cause the weather effects of El Nino and La Nina

  > > in the U.S. but

  > > they claim to "see" man's influence emerging from

  > > their models!  Now

  > > let's get real here! And maybe let's also remember

  > > that the study of

  > > "Man-made Global Warming" is a SEVERAL BILLION

  > > DOLLAR A YEAR industry

  > > in the U.S. alone.  This 8,000 pound Gorilla will

  > > react viciously and

  > > run completely out of control if anybody such as

  > > Bjorn Lomborg dares

  > > to question their conclusions.  I read Lomborg's

  > > book and then I also

  > > read the Gorilla's reaction in Scientific American.

  > > You don't have to

  > > be a climatologist to understand what is going on:

  > > This is the Gorilla

  > > at the Federal Feeding Trough reacting violently

  > > when disturbed!

  > > As I said, I am just a scientist not a

  > > climatologist, but together

  > > with my 17,000 colleagues, I recognize shades of

  > > pathological science in

  > > the sense of Nobel prize winning physical chemist

  > > Irving Langmuir when I

  > > encounter it.

  > >

  > >

  > > Best regards,

  > >

  > > Fritz

  > >

  > >

  > *****************************************************

  > > Fritz A. Seiler, Ph.D.

  > > Sigma Five Consulting:         Private:

  > > P.O. Box 1709                   P.O. Box 437

  > > Los Lunas, NM 87031             Tome', NM 87060

  > > Tel.:      505-866-5193         Tel. 505-866-6976

  > > Fax:       505-866-5197         USA

  > >

  > *****************************************************

  > >

  > >

  > > -----Original Message-----

  > > From: owner-radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu

  > > [mailto:owner-radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu]On Behalf

  > > Of John Fleck

  > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:39 PM

  > > To: radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu

  > > Subject: Re: Nuclear Power Des NOT Need Gobal

  > > Warming Hoax!

  > >

  > > I think one should be cautious before citing the

  > > OISM petition.

  > >

  > > It was based on what might charitably be called an

  > > act of academic sleight

  > > of hand: a "review paper" set in the typographic

  > > style of the PNAS in a

  > > transparent attempt to led credibility to it, sent

  > > to an apparently enormous

  > > number of scientists - in all fields, not only

  > > climate - along with a

  > > petition for them to sign. The "review paper" might

  > > best be described as a

  > > brief for the plaintiffs, not a genuine review of

  > > the evidence. How many

  > > scientists was it sent to? That would seem a

  > > relevant fact that would allow

  > > one to better judge how many scientists declined to

  > > sign it. Alas, Arthur

  > > Robinson, its author, won't say. "We're not willing

  > > to have our opponents

  > > attack us with that number, and say that the rest of

  > > the recipients are

  > > against us," he told a reporter for Nature in 1998.

  > >

  > >

  > >

  > >

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  >

  >

  > =====

  > +++++++++++++++++++

  > "We cannot escape danger, or the fear of danger, by crawling into bed

and pulling the covers over our heads."

  > -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt

  >

  > -- John

  > John Jacobus, MS

  > Certified Health Physicist

  > e-mail:  crispy_bird@yahoo.com

  >

  >

  >

  >

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