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Re: Nuclear Power Des NOT Need Gobal Warming Hoax!
I certainly agree that we should not have
science-by-plediscite. However, this is what this is.
National commissions have studied the issues, and it
is my understanding that they believe that problems
are real and man-made effects are causing or
accelerating the climate changes. If we choose to
discount this reports, what mechanisms should we use?
--- jjcohen <jjcohen@PRODIGY.NET> wrote:
> I am not a proponent of science-by-plebiscite, but
> I think we are missing
> the point on the objective of the 17,000 signature
> petition. This objective
> is not to prove or disprove global warming
> phenomena. Most of the public and
> just about all of the news media believe a pending
> global warming
> catastrophe to be a God-given fact. Perhaps if that
> faith can be shaken a
> little, related policies could become more
> rational.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Jacobus <crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM>
> To: Fritz A. Seiler <faseiler@NMIA.COM>; John
> Fleck
> <jfleck@abqjournal.com>;
> <radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu>
> Cc: RISKANAL Mailinglist <riskanal@lyris.pnl.gov>;
> Joseph L. Alvarez
> <jalvarez@auxier.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 11:50 AM
> Subject: RE: Nuclear Power Des NOT Need Gobal
> Warming Hoax!
>
>
> > Hi, Fritz,
> > Thanks for the comments.
> > Like you, I am not a climitologists.
> Consequently,
> > who should I believe?
> > My impression is that there has been a great
> deal of
> > problems with climate data collection, analysis
> and
> > model. There have been a number of reports
> > commissioned on the subject.
> >
>
http://lab.nap.edu/nap-cgi/discover.cgi?act=dourl&restric=NAP&url=.nap.edu/o
> penbook/0309068916/html/index.html
> > Can they all be wrong? Could the data be
> getting
> > better, and the models more accuarte?
> >
> > I still question the determination of scientific
> > issues by signing petitions. What if 34,000
> science
> > sign a petition that global warming exists? Who
> would
> > you believe?
> >
> > --- "Fritz A. Seiler" <faseiler@NMIA.COM> wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > I am one of these 17,000 signatories of the
> OISM
> > > petition. I
> > > am not a climatologist, I am just a scientist.
> > > Actually, I grew up
> > > as a nuclear physicist who has now been
> dabbling in
> > > risk assessment
> > > for 25 years. However, what I think that I
> have in
> > > common with the
> > > other signatories of the petition is a certain
> > > amount of skepticism
> > > for the loud and brash claims of
> climatologists
> > > whose huge computer
> > > models do not fit what we already know by
> experience
> > > and that is how
> > > El Nino and La Nina affect the winter weather
> in the
> > > U.S.
> > > Some months ago, Jim Dukelow pointed out to me
> that
> > > the Global
> > > Circulation Models now actually show currents
> such
> > > as the Southern
> > > Oscillation that is associated with El Nino or
> La
> > > Nina. I read that
> > > also elsewhere and find it encouraging. But I
> am
> > > still waiting for
> > > the loud shout of "Eureka!" that would have
> > > announced that they now
> > > can correlate the winter weather in the U.S.
> with
> > > the events in the
> > > Southern Hemisphere. Right now, I am still
> willing
> > > to listen but I
> > > am not holding my breath!
> > > At this time, I am still skeptical about
> scientists
> > > who make
> > > claims about effects such as man-made Global
> Warming
> > > which are minor
> > > compared to other well established weather
> effects.
> > > Their models do
> > > not cause the weather effects of El Nino and
> La Nina
> > > in the U.S. but
> > > they claim to "see" man's influence emerging
> from
> > > their models! Now
> > > let's get real here! And maybe let's also
> remember
> > > that the study of
> > > "Man-made Global Warming" is a SEVERAL BILLION
> > > DOLLAR A YEAR industry
> > > in the U.S. alone. This 8,000 pound Gorilla
> will
> > > react viciously and
> > > run completely out of control if anybody such
> as
> > > Bjorn Lomborg dares
> > > to question their conclusions. I read
> Lomborg's
> > > book and then I also
> > > read the Gorilla's reaction in Scientific
> American.
> > > You don't have to
> > > be a climatologist to understand what is going
> on:
> > > This is the Gorilla
> > > at the Federal Feeding Trough reacting
> violently
> > > when disturbed!
> > > As I said, I am just a scientist not a
> > > climatologist, but together
> > > with my 17,000 colleagues, I recognize shades
> of
> > > pathological science in
> > > the sense of Nobel prize winning physical
> chemist
> > > Irving Langmuir when I
> > > encounter it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Fritz
> > >
> > >
> >
>
*****************************************************
> > > Fritz A. Seiler, Ph.D.
> > > Sigma Five Consulting: Private:
> > > P.O. Box 1709 P.O. Box 437
> > > Los Lunas, NM 87031 Tome', NM
> 87060
> > > Tel.: 505-866-5193 Tel.
> 505-866-6976
> > > Fax: 505-866-5197 USA
> > >
> >
>
*****************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu
> > > [mailto:owner-radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu]On
> Behalf
> > > Of John Fleck
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 12:39 PM
> > > To: radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu
> > > Subject: Re: Nuclear Power Des NOT Need Gobal
> > > Warming Hoax!
> > >
> > > I think one should be cautious before citing
> the
> > > OISM petition.
> > >
> > > It was based on what might charitably be
> called an
> > > act of academic sleight
> > > of hand: a "review paper" set in the
> typographic
> > > style of the PNAS in a
> > > transparent attempt to led credibility to it,
> sent
> > > to an apparently enormous
> > > number of scientists - in all fields, not only
> > > climate - along with a
> > > petition for them to sign. The "review paper"
> might
> > > best be described as a
> > > brief for the plaintiffs, not a genuine review
> of
> > > the evidence. How many
> > > scientists was it sent to? That would seem a
>
=== message truncated ===
=====
+++++++++++++++++++
"We cannot escape danger, or the fear of danger, by crawling into bed and pulling the covers over our heads."
-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
-- John
John Jacobus, MS
Certified Health Physicist
e-mail: crispy_bird@yahoo.com
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