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Re: AW: Radionuclides in "Green Sand"-Clarification and Request
Dale;
After being chewed out for echoing a comment quoted from a non-academic source a
couple of years ago, I left this list and went into lurk mode. Unfortunately,
there are a few "sharks" crusing these waters who enjoy biting newbies. But I
think the majority of people on here understand the point of view of someone
asking a meaningful question, not out of ignorance but of need. So, I decided to
come back again, but I refrain from making uninformed comments or opinions.
As an amateur minerologist, I know that North Carolina is fairly rich in metal
ores. Uranium was extensively mined there for decades, so its reasonable that
uranium and its daughters will show up in sands and sandstone now and then (and
the water that flows through them). But I just can't think of a reason why green
sand (chlorlite rich) would be different than any other regarding concentration,
unless that sand was derived from erosion of a natural outcrop of uranium ore. Is
this sand localized, or is it throughout the state? Your best bet to answer your
question might come from your state geologist.
-Russ
Dale Dusenbury wrote:
> Franz Schoenhofer wrote:
>
> >Dale,
> >
> >Interesting to hear that you are an "environmental radiation specialist"
> >searching for information. I do not regard myself as an "environmental
> >radiation specialist", but I think I could give you some hints and probably
> >explanations. I have participated and even coordinated some research on the
> >removal of naturally occurring radioactive material (NORM) in drinking
> >water. In order to answer your question quite a lot of information is
> >needed: What is the radionuclide specific concentration of radionuclides in
> >the feed water? What is it for the purified water? What is the radionuclide
> >concentration in the original green sand? What is it in the green sand after
> >filtration? Etc. etc. With other words: A lot of input parameters are
> >needed. I have a lot of experience just regarding "green sand" and water
> >purification. But:
> >
> >Your inquiry seems to be to me a little queer. Obviously you work for a
> >company and this company earns money for an expertise. Now you want the
> >RADSAFE community to solve your problem. This means that you want us to work
> >for you free of charge.
> >
> >I will not work free of charge, though I am convinced that I could easily
> >solve the problem you put forward, nor do I think that most of other
> >RADSAFErs do it. If you want an expertise, please forward a financial offer
> >to RADSAFE.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >
> >Franz
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >Von: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu
> >[mailto:owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu]Im Auftrag von Dale Dusenbury
> >Gesendet: Donnerstag, 03. Juni 2004 23:09
> >An: radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu
> >Cc: alan.hardy@ncmail.net; Dale Dusenbury
> >Betreff: Radionuclides in "Green Sand"-Are there any?
> >
> >
> >My name is Dale Dusenbury and I am an environmental radiation specialist
> >with the North Carolina Radiation Protection Section. Does anyone have
> >any information on the presence of radionuclides( particularly natural
> >ones), found in "green sand", a filtering media used in water
> >purification plants? This is the definition I found on the web for green
> >sand:"/Greensand is a mineral mined from natural deposits of glauconite.
> >These deposits are composed primarily of iron-potassium silicate. ... A
> >great source of potassium and other trace elements." /Is this natural
> >greensand used primarily or is there a synthetic substitute for water
> >purification purposes?
> >There is a question at a ground water supply in our area due to levels
> >of natural nuclides in water that appear to increase following treatment
> >by "green sand". If such nuclides are present in this material, what ph
> >or other conditions(water hardness from manganese or iron from example)
> >could move these nuclides into solution where they could enter the
> >treated water? Radsafers are welcome to reply to the list or to my
> >e-mail if you like.
> >Dale Dusenbury, CHP, MSPH
> >NC Radiation Protection Section
> >3825 Barrett Drive
> >Raleigh, NC 27609-7221
> >e-mail:dale.dusenbury@ncmail.net
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> I think I need to clarify my question and state a couple of other facts.
> First of all the radioactive material in the treated water is nuclides
> from the U-238 series of natural nuclides specifically Ra-226, etc. The
> influent water is from 3 wells, all of which are less than the maximum
> contaminant limit (MCL) for these nucides i.e. 5 pCi/L (Ra-226 and
> Ra-228, apprently here it's overwhelmingly Ra-226). I don't have the
> numbers in front of me. The 3 rd well was recently added. Its activity
> was determined to be less than the MCL for these nuclides as prior to
> connecting it to the green sand filter. The water that came out after
> treatment exceeded the standard of 5 pCi/l combined Radium.
> To summarize, water going in has minimal or less than MCL amounts of Ra
> going in, and after treatment it exceeds those stnandards cited above.
> My question is why? Specifically, is it possibly the NORM material is in
> the green sand which seems logical, and does the water chemistry(ph,
> etc.)mobilize this material during the treatment? Does anyone on the
> list have experience in such things?Those are my questions.
>
> Now a couple of other facts, the RADSAFE list has been a source of
> invaluable information on a number of occasions for me. I asked my
> question, not because I'm a consultant. I'm not. You could say, I'm in
> the non-profit sector, because the consultants make a profit from the
> information I give the citizens of this state every day. And I provide
> it to them free(even to the consultants who call me) . An engineer in
> the public water supply section of our state governmemnt asked to
> discuss this issue with me, and I indicated I would take it to the list
> for help. Many of the responses have been helpful, and a few have made
> me want to return to my usual role of lurking and learning from the
> list, rather than posting. Some past participants have even decided to
> leave the list after posting and receiving derisive responses. I have
> chosen to remain but I make one request to any list members who might
> respond to this posting.
>
> Try to answer the question I've aked and prior to making any further
> pronouncements about my motives, my affiliations, or any other personal
> characteristics, please contact me off the list, and make sure you have
> your facts straight. To do anything less would indicate at best a rush
> to judgement, and at worst a lack of professionalism, however great the
> academic attainments of the offender.
>
> Dale Dusenbury, CHP, MSPH
> NC Radiation Protection Section
> 3825 Barrett Drive
> Raleigh, NC 27609-7221
> e-mail:dale.dusenbury@ncmail.net
>
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