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Re: Baldwin : "crushing ignorance in the United States"
Time line is suggested: ROI 2008
Over 4 years that reduces the cost from $14000 per home to $3500 or $291 /
month - perhaps it is economical (barely). Returning warm water to the
Lake could however have disasterous consequences on flora and fauna. I
know they say they it will be used for drinking water instead but some will
probably return. There are laws in British Columbia against using ground
water to cool things such as fermentation tanks and returning the warmed
water back. Any time you can generate a heat differential you can get
work. Still, 169 million is a tremendous investment (US of CDN). It
reminds me a little of the money spend on wind power in Halifax which can
only run 13% of the time due to winds that are either doldrums or too
powerful and would shear off the gears.
Cheers,
Lorraine
Lorraine Day, PhD
day@lsu.edu
bobcherry@cox.net@list.vanderbilt.edu on 08/18/2004 11:13:14 AM
Please respond to bobcherry@cox.net
Sent by: owner-radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu
To: <radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu>
cc: (bcc: Lorraine Marceau-Day/day/LSU)
Subject: Re: Baldwin : "crushing ignorance in the United States"
Bill has made an excellent observation that led me to make these simple,
perhaps flawed, calculations using the information in the article.
The project cost $169,600,000. It is cooling 20 buildings, 32% of capacity.
At capacity (62 buildings), that is over $2,700,000 per building. It is
equivalent to the air-conditioning electricity bill for 12,000 homes. That
is over $14,000 per home.
Time-scales and building sizes aren't mentioned, so I can't really tell
whether the project makes economic sense. Maybe it isn't so bad if that is
CDN$ rather than US$.
Bob C
>
> From: Bill Prestwich <prestwic@mcmaster.ca>
> Date: 2004/08/18 Wed AM 10:46:40 EDT
> To: "Franta, Jaroslav" <frantaj@AECL.CA>
> CC: "Radsafe (E-mail)" <radsafe@list.vanderbilt.edu>,
> "Multiple (E-mail)" <cdn-nucl-l@mailman1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
> Subject: Re: Baldwin : "crushing ignorance in the United States"
>
> The statement that the project has the potential to cool 12,000 homes
> puts in perspective the effort for rather small returns. I think this
> would be a pretty small fraction of the needs of homes, offices, and
> plants in the greater Toronto area.
> Bill Prestwich
>
> "Franta, Jaroslav" wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > As you know, actor Alec Baldwin is also a supporter of the Tooth Fairy
> > Project, another magnificent pillar in the battle against crushing
> > ignorance.....
> >
> > The project itself seems like a good idea -- it remains to be seen
> > what Lake Ontario's zebra mussels think of it, and whether Enwave's
> > "hopes of starting to earn a return on its deep-lake investment by
> > 2008" will not be dashed (not to say "crushed") by shortened equipment
> > life (as opposed to ignorance).....
> >
> > Jaro
> >
> > http://www.cns-snc.ca/branches/quebec/quebec.html
> >
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Project sends a chill through downtown;
> > Deep lake water cooling begins Actor helps launch innovative system
> > The Toronto Star, Wed 18 Aug 2004
> > John Spears and Bruce DeMara
> > Toronto has launched its project to cool downtown buildings with cold
> > lake water on a torrent of hot air.
> > Dozens of civic and business leaders jammed a stuffy room at the Steam
> > Whistle Brewery yesterday to hear a seemingly endless string of
> > politicians and notables, headlined by actor Alec Baldwin, laud the
> > Deep Lake Water Cooling Project.
> >
> > "What's being announced here is a miracle," gushed Baldwin.
> > The miracle cost $169.6 million, the money being used to construct
> > three pipes thrusting 5 kilometres into Lake Ontario. Cold water is
> > pumped from the bottom and sent on to a heat-transfer station, where
> > it cools water in a separate network of pipes flowing into the
> > air-conditioning systems of some of Toronto's biggest office
> > buildings. The treated lake water - now warmed by one or two degrees -
> > then flows into the city's drinking water pipes.
> >
> > (Don't expect your drinking water to get warmer because of the
> > project. If anything, it'll be colder, because water from the normal,
> > shallower intake pipes serving the city is typically at 12 to 15C,
> > according to Dennis Fotinos, chief executive of Enwave District Energy
> > Ltd.)
> >
> > The project is the child of Enwave, owned 43 per cent by the City of
> > Toronto and 57 per cent by the OMERS pension fund. As of yesterday,
> > it's cooling 20 buildings, including the Royal Bank Plaza,
> > Toronto-Dominion Centre and Air Canada Centre. But that represents
> > only 32 per cent of the system's capacity, Fotinos said. Clients
> > include the Steam Whistle Brewery, although Fotinos laughingly
> > acknowledged that the air conditioning seemed to have gone missing
> > yesterday as the temperature climbed in the crowded room.
> >
> > "It's a small glitch; we'll get to the bottom of it," he said. Enwave
> > is already in talks with the Sheraton Centre, Bell Trinity Centre and
> > Old City Hall to add them. Ironically, the city is not looking to add
> > the new city hall to Enwave's client list, since it only recently
> > overhauled its conventional cooling system.
> >
> > But Enwave is talking with the province about running a new $14
> > million pipe north to Queen's Park so lake water could cool the
> > Legislature and nearby government buildings. Signing Queen's Park
> > would bring the portion of cooling capacity in use to more than 50 per
> > cent, boosting Enwave's hopes of starting to earn a return on its
> > deep-lake investment by 2008.
> >
> > "I look forward to the day when we sign the deal," said Ontario Energy
> > Minister Dwight Duncan, who has promised to cut his government's own
> > power usage by 10 per cent. "Not only will this deep lake water
> > cooling project save the province 59 megawatts of capacity - the
> > equivalent amount of electricity required to power 12,000
> > air-conditioned homes - it also stands as a shining example of the
> > enormous potential we see for energy-efficiency programs and for
> > alternative forms of energy."
> >
> > Federal Human Resources Minister Joe Volpe came bearing gifts a $10
> > million low-interest loan for Enwave.
> > Baldwin, who has long campaigned for alternative energy in his native
> > New York state, heaped praise on everyone involved, hailing them as
> > "heroes." He also slammed businesses that are lobbying the province to
> > back away from its commitment to shut down Ontario's coal-burning
> > power plants by 2007. And he praised Canadian governments for backing
> > the project. "For something like this to succeed," he said, "you have
> > to have a government that's not sitting on top of you and crushing you
> > with their ignorance, like we have in the United States right now."
>
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