[ RadSafe ] Re: Nuclear Power Plant Effluents / EMP, "Nuclear War Survival Skills "

[Richard L. Hess]

Hi, John,

The two quotes were from good, solid, well-employed, college-educated 
co-workers in a white-collar engineering office. Yes, they are probably 
also nuts, but then most of my friends are nuts in one way or another <smile>.

I do stock duct tape and plastic sheeting, but not for the Tom Ridge 
Memorial Purposes. Plastic sheeting is most useful during construction 
(which I am involved with now, and taking great pains to protect the 
electrical systems of the studio from lightning and other surges), and duct 
tape has such a wide variety of uses, one can't live without it. I'm sure 
that some of you would like to put it on my fingers...or mouth. <smile>

Actually, I always thought that the Tom Ridge Memorial Plastic Sheeting and 
Duct Tape Scenario was part of the Minister of Fear campaign as so honestly 
told by Mark Fiore.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/07/14/fiorefear.DTL

I heard the recommendation and thought about it in the context of our home 
in Glendale, CA, and said "this is silly." There are so many infiltration 
paths, what good is this?

I am NOT worried about EMP. I want to learn more so that I may carry on an 
informed discussion in my chosen field of media archiving with people who 
are worried about EMP and digital archives. It's not practical to store or 
manage petabytes of data using vacuum tube equipment. I retain very little 
tube equipment.

A funny story about petabytes. About ten years ago, Sony introduced a 
robotic data tape library that could hold over a petabyte. At their 
original showing of it, the product was named the "Petafile." The next time 
we saw it, the same product was called "Petasite." I think there was a 
marketing guy looking for work.

RE: TFP, I understand the basic statistics. I wanted to try and really 
understand their claim. The original post implied: "When Salem was shut 
down there were X cases of cancer in the area over several years. When 
Salem started up there were 1.3X cases of cancer over a similar time 
frame." That's why I was asking questions--not because I was worried, but 
I'm trying to understand the "science" behind the statement. (note the 
"science" in quotes). Of course there are so many other confounding factors 
and also the random probability of cancers occurring in any given 
population over any given period of time could be the explanation for this. 
I think someone said, "don't try and understand TFP data." Perhaps that's 
the best advice yet.

My only problem with the TFP data it is that it is covered in the media as 
if it were true and it just doesn't make any sense. Magic ions moving 
through the ether undetected until they land in baby teeth.

I like understanding things. Understanding things leads to loss of fear. I 
propose that if half the population took ten percent of the time that I've 
taken with an open mind, this would be put to rest.

Another big area of confusion seems to be HAARP. People are confusing the 
calculation fiction (or shorthand) of effective radiated power for actual 
power. No, I am not worried about HAARP, but there are people who are. I've 
read the scare books and find their numbers are off by a factor of 100 or so.

But I wish I understood more of what Tesla was thinking 70-odd years ago 
for no reason other than it's an interesting enigma.

Cheers,

Richard

At 08:25 AM 2/28/2005, you wrote:
>My wife and I are very stoic about these stories.  You
>can prepare for the nuclear attack, the "dirty bomb,"
>etc., or get hit by a bus.  We refuse to buy duct tape
>and plastic sheeting for our windows.  We have a
>radio, and will stay inside or evacuate if necessary.
>We have a couple of days supplies in case we get
>snowed in.
>
>Personally, I think some of the quotes you list are
>from "nuts."  I refuse to live in fear of the
>improbable.  Why are you worried about EMP?  Do you
>think terrorist have nuclear weapons and
>intercontinential missiles?  I am more concerned about
>blackouts due to down powerlines.  EMP is different
>from lightening due to the instantaneous peak.  If you
>want to protect electronic equipment, use vacuum
>tubes.
>
>
>With regard to the TFP, study some basic statistics.
>If you have small values for cancer, any increases
>with seem dramatic.  They claim an increase of 30%.
>Thirty percent of what?  Over what time frame?  Two
>years, five years, twenty years?
>
>Worry about the real problems, like that bus.
>
>--- "Richard L. Hess" <lists at richardhess.com> wrote:
>
> > At 05:26 PM 2/27/2005, John Jacobus wrote:
> > >Out of curiosity, what actions or recommendations
> > have
> > >you and family taken?  Have you built fallout
> > >shelters, store water, built electroscopes, etc?
> >
> > Hello, John,
> >
> > I'm trying to make sense of this all. I keep hearing
> > so much doom and gloom
> > that I'm asking out of intellectual interest.
> >
> > I do have two CDV-700s and an Aware RM-70 (IIRC).
> > They are all G-M devices.
> > I don't have electroscopes, etc. I have not built a
> > fallout shelter, but, I
> > have moved away from the LA Basin for other reasons
> > to an area about 40
> > miles north of downtown Toronto--my wife's hometown.
> >
> > In LA we used to store water and food, but don't do
> > as much here. It was
> > for earthquake protection, not nuclear incidents. We
> > keep a little here in
> > case we are blizzarded in.
> >
> > I want to be informed to make decisions for my
> > family--that was the
> > original intent of my joining the list. I had heard
> > things around work like:
> >
> > --"my brother works for the spook agency and he
> > wants me to outfit my cabin
> > in the Sierras with a generator as a place to run
> > to."
> >
> > --"I lived in Montana and I wouldn't drive the Snake
> > River route without a
> > Geiger Counter." (I did, and it showed background
> > radiation peaking around
> > 20µR/hr near some lava outcroppings and a bit more
> > at the lip of the huge
> > open-pit mine in Butte MT. It was down to about 5
> > across the Canadian
> > prairies.)
> >
> > This is pretty powerful stuff to hear when you've
> > got two kids (at the time
> > around 5-8) and a wife and you travel a lot. Nothing
> > I've done has made me
> > feel safer than joining this list, and I appreciate
> > it.
> >
> > My interest in EMP recently was started by a mention
> > on an archives-related
> > mailing list and some people were making claims
> > about EMP that sounded
> > rather, extravagant to say the least. It turns out
> > from reading some of the
> > cited literature that the area of an EMP from a
> > high-altitude blast is
> > continental. I haven't yet gotten to the strength of
> > it. If someone
> > mentions something and it impacts work that I'm
> > interested in, I like to
> > learn enough about it to confirm or debunk the
> > claims.
> >
> > The thought here is that as we migrate audio and
> > video archives from analog
> > tape to digital storage (which may be on multiple
> > hard-disk drives) that we
> > need to worry more about EMP wiping out the whole
> > thing. Someone kindly
> > shot down that argument, but I've wanted to
> > investigate enough to shoot it
> > down technically if it's bogus. More reading is in
> > order.
> >
> > I'm much more concerned about lightning than EMP,
> > since it appears that the
> > light pole in front of my neighbor's home was taken
> > out a few years ago by
> > a direct lightning hit. It also took out a fair
> > amount of electronics in my
> > neighbor's home on the other (far) side. I'm taking
> > reasonable precautions
> > to protect my equipment.
> >
> > Also, my query about NGS/NPP effluents was in the
> > spirit of trying to
> > understand the TFP how they can claim 30% increase
> > in cancer when no
> > significant/measurable leaks are ever reported by
> > the NGS which has the
> > responsibility to do such monitoring.
> >
> > I do believe the scientists on this list that tell
> > me that there is more
> > radiation in the coal-fired plant emissions than
> > from an NGS.
> >
> > So, no, I'm not digging a shelter, nor am I
> > investigating membership in Ark
> > II which seems to be about 30-50 miles from me.
> >
> > By the way, horrible happenings back in So. Cal.
> > Looks like I got out in
> > time! Our home was on a decomposed granite hillside
> > and from what I've
> > heard, nothing has happened. Stay dry!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > >
> > >--- howard long <hflong at pacbell.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Nuclear War Survival Skills" by Cresson Kearny,
> > > > upated 1987, 1999 addendum on Hormesis, Foreword
> > by
> > > > Edward Teller, 282pp "may be reproduced without
> > > > obtaining permission from anyone" is available
> > > > online free (hard cc $19.75 delivered) at
> > > > www.oism.org/nwss I gave copies to all my family
> > > > members. It
> > >
> > >=====
> > >+++++++++++++++++++
> > >"Baltimore is actually a very safe city if you are
> > not involved in the
> > >drug trade."
> > >DR. PETER BEILENSON, the city's health
> > commissioner.
> > >
> > >-- John
> > >John Jacobus, MS
> > >Certified Health Physicist
> > >e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
>
>
>=====
>+++++++++++++++++++
>"Baltimore is actually a very safe city if you are not involved in the 
>drug trade."
>DR. PETER BEILENSON, the city's health commissioner.
>
>-- John
>John Jacobus, MS
>Certified Health Physicist
>e-mail:  crispy_bird at yahoo.com
>
>
>
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