[ RadSafe ] Another recent article

Thompson, Dewey L DThompson3 at ameren.com
Thu Jun 7 12:49:54 CDT 2012


Might make air conditioning in the summer easy.   Heating in the winter might be challenging though.  


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----- Original Message -----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu <radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Thu Jun 07 12:06:01 2012
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article

I like LN2 as a portable energy storage system WAY more than hydrogen, which is difficult to deal with and dangerous if things go wrong.  

I am not ready to sink my family fortune (such as it is) into LN2, but I like that there is nothing particularly difficult in the application.  I also like that the waste product is cold, not heat, which has potential uses.



-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Neil, David M
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2012 9:57 AM
To: radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article

Stipulating that LN2 is an energy storage, not an energy producer, if you can get a similar miles-per-gallon energy yield that might be worth consideration.

I don't have a current figure for LN2 cost per gallon, but I recall it being likened to a gallon of milk - which would put it less than or at par to gasoline. Increased volume would possibly reduce this further, and the primary energy could come from any source. This would allow localized production facilities near the consumer, instead of concentrated ones near the production.

Interesting concept.


Dave Neil
DOE-ID Lessons Learned Coordinator

Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.  - George Santayana


-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of JPreisig at aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 5:24 PM
To: radsafe at agni.phys.iit.edu
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent article

Hmmmmm,
 
      There's always a downside to such a  scheme.  The downside is that you do considerable work in producing the liquid nitrogen.  I'm sure the internet can tell you  how liquid nitrogen is made.
Condensed from air??? via cooling????
 
                          Joe Preisig
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 6/5/2012 6:03:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Mike.Brennan at DOH.WA.GOV writes:

Hi  Stan.

I haven't collected up any papers, though I've seen a couple over  the years.  The first time I was introduced to the idea was at a  convention where a University of Washington professor gave a presentation on  some work he was doing.  He was using a small automobile engine (old VW  Bug, if I recall), in which liquid nitrogen was squirted into the cylinders  where it vaporized and pushed the pistons.  He used the outside world as  a heat source, and 
the trick was keeping the engine warm enough.   Obviously there are better 
designs possible for harvesting this  energy.

Liquefied nitrogen has a much higher energy density than  pressurized gas, and is actually easier and safer to store (and much safer  than gasoline or electricity).  It is not as safe as water pumped to a  height, but is much more portable.  

I am sure there are technical  difficulties that were glossed over (but nothing like the "if we get enough  helium-3 fusion will be a snap!" crowd), but really, what's not to like about  liquid nitrogen?  

-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Stan Morton
Sent:  Tuesday, June 05, 2012 9:44 AM
To: 'The International Radiation Protection  (Health Physics) Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent  article

Dr. Brennan,

Do you have a reference for the liquid  nitrogen technology?

Respectfully,
Stan  Morton



-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Brennan, Mike  (DOH)
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 10:26 AM
To: The International  Radiation Protection (Health Physics) MailingList
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ]  Another recent article

One of the slickest energy storage systems I've  seen involves liquefying nitrogen.  The tech is mature and well  understood, the energy density compares with batteries, and it has useful  byproducts (filtering the air, producing compressed oxygen, etc).  It is  also pretty safe, compared to a lot of other energy sources (a leak puts out  fires, rather than feeds them).  It is not, however, flashy, and so isn't  receiving much attention). 

-----Original Message-----
From:  radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
[mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of ROY HERREN
Sent:  Sunday, June 03, 2012 5:32 PM
To: The International Radiation Protection  (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent  article

It appears that the peak energy storage conundrum isn't unique  to Solar photovoltaic energy  production.
http://www.anl.gov/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffmcmahon/2012/05/30/wind-power-may-not-reduce
-carbon-emissions-argonne/

5/30/2012  @ 2:07PM |2,515 views
Wind Power May Not Reduce Carbon Emissions As  Expected: Argonne "Argonne researchers are working on one possible solution to  this problem: 
batteries that can store wind power for use when the wind  stops blowing—as well as store solar energy for use at night". Roy Herren  





________________________________
From: Jeff Terry  <terryj at iit.edu>
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health  Physics) Mailing List <radsafe at health.phys.iit.edu>
Sent: Sat, June  2, 2012 4:10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Another recent  article

Solar thermal at least has some built-in storage capacity. One  would think that that would play some role. 


Sent from my  iPhone

On Jun 2, 2012, at 5:57 PM, ROY HERREN  <royherren2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/40460/?p1=A3
> 
> I think  it's interesting that China's "investment" into solar 
electricity 
>  generation has had such a disruptive effect in the market place.  "Even  
as the 

> project nears completion, the future of solar thermal  power plants is in 
doubt. 
>
> That’s in large part because prices  for solar panels—which convert 
sunlight to 

> electricity  directly—have dropped quickly in the last few years, causing 
at 
> least  one company to abandon plans to build solar thermal plants in 
favor of  
> making ones that use solar panels".  I think that it's important  to 
remember 
> that Solyndra didn't go bankrupt because of a technology  failure in 
their 
>design 
>
> or product, but rather they  went bankrupt because they couldn't compete 
on a 
> financial basis with  the downward spiral in the price of solar panels 
being 
> shipped to the  US from China.  Only time will tell which technology will 
win 
>out  
>
> in the long run.  I am forever reminded of the battle  between and Sony 
and the 

> other electronic manufactures over Beta  vs. VHS video tape decks.  The 
> "so-called" better technology  lost out to the power of the majority of 
the 
> market place.  The  amusing thing is that today the consumer market for 
video 
> tape decks  is all but dead.  My but the market and the technology hawked 
there  

> is a fickle place.  How will Nuclear Power, fission, fare in  the long 
run?  Is 

> there any chance the Chinese government  can be talked into investing 
billions 
>of 
>
> dollars into  Nuclear Power and thereby reducing the price of global 
Nuclear 
>  Power?  If so, would we trust the reliability of Chinese manufactured  
> Nuclear Power plants?  If there is a question of  trustworthiness, why 
are 
> consumers trusting the reliability of  Chinese manufactured photovoltaic 
solar 
> panels? 
> Roy Herren  
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