[ RadSafe ] Agreeing with Franz on "dogma"

Thu Aug 20 12:08:02 CDT 2015

While as a Heath Physicist I am a mere stripling of 25 years, I view my role a little differently, perhaps because I deal more with the general public (as the person running our radon program, and working in our environmental section) than I do radiation workers.  I spend a fair amount of time trying to help people understand relative risk, so they can make informed choices.  As an example, in the Fukushima aftermath I spent a fair amount of time convincing people that fleeing Seattle for places like Denver or Spokane was not decreasing their risk, or that their constant state of agitation was probably a greater health risk than any radiation exposure they would ever receive.  

As others have said, I don't have negative feelings towards the word "dogma", and I believe that it actually describes LNT fairly well, at least in the regulatory and activist communities.  I don't, however, believe that simply because something is dogma that is should be exempt from questioning, and I think questioning LNT is very worthwhile.  

-----Original Message-----
From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Sander Perle
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2015 9:50 AM
To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing List
Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Agreeing with Franz on "dogma"

As a Health Physicist for 44 years, our role is to ensure a safe radiation environment work place, not just at high dose/dose rates, but at any dose/dose rate. This includes ensuring that the facility, NPP, University or Medical Institution meets all applicable regulations, license conditions, public dose, etc. 

Regards,

Sandy
Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 20, 2015, at 9:36 AM, Joseph Preisig <jrpnj01 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Radsafe,
> 
>     Nuclear reactors, when operated properly and when they are not 
> being hit by a tsunami or a large/great earthquake, are inherently 
> safe.  They are designed to be safe.  They operate well and provide 
> useful amounts of power.  There is risk in walking down the street.
> Is it safe???  (question is asked in the movie the Marathon Man)....
>     Why are we always worried about LNT and the low dose end of the 
> curve???  Isn't the health physicist's job at higher doses/dose 
> rates????
>     Joe Preisig
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8/20/15, Bill Prestwich <prestwic at mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>> I think it is possible to expose the falseness in the anti-nuclear 
>> movement within the LNT approach as used by regulators.  The argument 
>> used by this movement is that science has shown no level of radiation 
>> is safe. In the first place there is no scientific definition of 
>> safe. What the opponents of nuclear power are claiming is that safe 
>> is defined as a process that has zero probability of harm. With that 
>> definition almost nothing is safe. The reply to these people is that 
>> they are claiming that a probability of one in a trillion that an 
>> action could cause some harm means that action should be abolished. 
>> Instead I think one could argue that the LNT is over restricting and 
>> hence overly careful in protecting the public.
>> 
>> Bill Prestwich
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu 
>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at agni.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of KARAM, PHILIP
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:41 PM
>> To: The International Radiation Protection (Health Physics) Mailing 
>> List
>> Subject: Re: [ RadSafe ] Agreeing with Franz on "dogma"
>> 
>> I don't think that the word "dogma" is at all derisive in and of 
>> itself. In biochem we learned the "central dogma of molecular 
>> biology" (which you can find in any number of textbooks in precisely 
>> that phrasing), which was DNA-RNA-protein. In Sunday school 
>> (Catholic) we learned a number of dogmas of the Catholic Church. Used properly, the word is descriptive, not loaded.
>> 
>> In the case of LNT, the use of the word dogma is certainly 
>> appropriate in a number of cases.
>> 
>> -As Franz pointed out, it is NOT appropriate for the scientific 
>> debate, which continues to be lively.
>> -In the regulatory realm (and in the area of ALARA), LNT certainly 
>> has become dogma in the sense that it is the central belief behind 
>> the way that regulations are written and ALARA is practiced - and if 
>> LNT were to be shown to be false then we might well have to re-think 
>> the way that we practice ALARA as well as the way we regulate.
>> -And among the anti-nuclear and anti-radiation activists LNT is most 
>> certainly dogma in that it is virtually the only argument they use to 
>> demand that all reactors be shut down and all use of radiation that 
>> can expose the public be banned - if LNT is shown to be false then 
>> their central argument crumbles to the ground.
>> 
>> The word itself is neither positive nor negative - it is simply 
>> descriptive.
>> But, like the word "evolution," it has come to mean more to some than 
>> ought to be the case.
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu
>> [mailto:radsafe-bounces at health.phys.iit.edu] On Behalf Of Peter Crane
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 2:02 PM
>> To: RADSAFE
>> Subject: [ RadSafe ] Agreeing with Franz on "dogma"
>> 
>> It's a pleasure to be able to agree with Franz for once. This use of 
>> loaded words such as "dogma" and "cult" to denigrate the LNT (and, on 
>> the other side, the hormesis theory) adds nothing to the debate. The 
>> propagandistic purpose is too obvious. Maybe that's OK if you are 
>> just preaching to the choir, since you are not out to change any 
>> minds, but trying to convert opponents by calling them cultists following a dogma? It doesn't work.
>> 
>> I'd love to know more about infighting in the Austrian bureaucracy, Franz.
>> I
>> thought the watchword there was Schlamperei, of taking things easy 
>> and not too seriously, but I suppose I'm forgetting my Kafka, plus 
>> the golden rule of organizations -- governmental, academic, etc. -- 
>> that the smaller the stakes, the more vicious the internal battles 
>> can be. By the way, if you know Bad Ischl, Villa Rothstein, my 
>> great-grand-uncle's summer home, was where my grandmother played as a 
>> child, back around 1901-1903. Das gibt's nur einmal, das kommt nicht wieder....
>> 
>> -- Peter Crane, Seattle
>> NRC Counsel for Special Projects (retired) 
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