About this list

[Neon John <johngd@bellsouth.net>]

David_S_Hyder@rl.gov wrote:

> I'm sure that Norm knows this but doesn't care.  I disagree that this is
> science talking to religion, this is science talking to big money (taxpayers
> money) and some people, some where, are getting rich from all the noise
> being made.  I'm not accusing Norm or anyone else, but I'm sure someone is
> making bucket loads of money from this.  The bad thing is the environment
> and humanity will suffer for it in the long run.

Absolutely true on the money side. But it's still a theological
debate.  Of course Norm and buddies are true believers.  They're led
by charismatic (to them at least) leaders such a Goffman and Nader
who ARE getting rich.  These leaders are exactly analogous to Jim
Baker, Falwell, Pat Robinson and their ilk.  When talking about
personal gain, remember that money is only half the issue.  The
other half is power.  Nader likes to claim that he lives as a pauper
(even though he's rich by any measure) but his currency in trade is
power.  In that regard, his position as a charismatic leader has
paid  him handsomely.

One MUST understand the nature of the enemy if we are to have ANY
hope of prevailing.

> 
> One last thing about RADSAFE.  It seems that far less than one percent of
> the members of this list server make about ninety-nine percent of the
> postings.  And way too many of the postings are opinions (or poor attempts
> at humor) only.  Some of them even make our profession as a whole look bad
> in the eyes of the public, and the public does watch this list server.
> RADSAFE has become a large waste of time just deleting the garbage rather
> than a professional tool.  Note, if you're posting more than a couple of
> times a week, it's probably way too many.  If you re-read your post and find
> that it's just a vent against someone's opinion, hit the delete key instead
> of the send key (or better yet, send it to that person only).  Everyone will
> be happier for it.

The bulk of the traffic this week, what hasn't come from the antis
that no one can seem to ignore so they'll go away, has been people
posting non-technical messages pissing and moaning about other
non-technical messages.  Is this a recursive problem?

More to the point, this is absolutely THE most unfriendly list I'm
on regarding the give and take of technical issues.  It seems that
there are a large number of people just waiting in the wings,  ready
toss back into a questioner's face any minor mistake OR indication
of lack of knowledge of some obscure point regarding the topic of
the question. And even when the question has no technical errors nor
any indication that the questioner slept through a day of class in
college, the answers tend to be flippant and useless.  

Some of this is probably innocent.  Those of you who work for
institutions with first rate libraries, research staff and such tend
to forget that the rest of us don't have those resources.  In my
case, if I can't find it on the net, my personal library or through
inter-library loan, I have to make a 100 mile trip to Ga Tech's
library.  Not very practical when the purpose of asking the question
is strictly for personal learning.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that some folks toss out unadorned CFR
references right down to the subparagraph or reference to an article
in some obscure journal strictly to impress rather than to inform or
climb in the pecking order.  Taking a few minutes to actually write
up what one knows in addition to the references would make this list
so much more pleasant.

For example, for the last few weeks I've been studying LINAC designs
in my spare time.  I have some questions that I'd like to ask but I
don't feel I dare.  Other than the Van der Graff accelerator I built
in high school, I know very little about them.  Consequently, I'd
probably make an incorrect assumption or word something badly (in
the view of a LINAC expert) in the question and get my head handed
to me.  I had to tolerate that kind of crap from arrogant professors
in college.  I don't now.  So instead of asking the question and
carrying on the dialog in public on this list so that others can
learn along with me, I'll pick out someone I think can answer my
questions and ask it in private mail.  Or just plan a trip to the GA
Tech library.

Another classic example of the nature of this list is the way people
took off the head of that student journalist who popped up here last
spring to ask some novice questions.  Turned out that she was tough
enough to get through being instantly labeled an idiot anti-nuke to
state her purpose and get some answers.  Most wouldn't. The usual
case would be that this list had just bred another virulent
anti-nuke after such an assault.

I KNOW that I'm not the only one who feels this way because I have
fairly frequent off-list conversations with other list members and
the reason is this very issue.

This environment is hugely corrosive to the community that any
mailing list tries to establish.  The evidence is pervasive.  The
people who do ask questions try to constrain their questions as
tightly as possible so as to leave as few avenues of attack as
possible.  Why should not someone not be able to ask a general
question like, say "Could someone explain counting statistics to
me?"  Without them getting chopped off at the shoulder?  Yeah, this
is an elemental question for a lot of us but if we who know act as
teacher instead of critic, a couple of things happen: a) we sharpen
our own knowledge in preparing an answer (as any teacher knows) and
b) the thread is likely to weave into all sorts of OTHER interesting
technical issues.

Beyond this issue, the other main reason that most people don't
write anything is the same reason that most people in an in-person
group don't contribute - they're shy and/or want to be passively
entertained.  That's the way it is on every other list I'm on and is
the way it is in real life in the committees I serve on.  That's
life.  

> Flame me in private as I intend to unsubscribe from this list today.

Bye now.

John

PS: Not flaming you, David, just using your message to scratch an
itch.  Of course, you COULD learn to use your mail reader's kill
function (in Netscape, it's under EDIT->Message Filters) to remove
the annoyances that seem to so upset you and then you could perhaps
make some technical contributions of your own.  I'm sure I'd be
interested in whatever you had to say.

-- 
John De Armond
johngdSPAMNOT@bellsouth.net
http://personal.bellsouth.net/~johngd/
Neon John's Custom Neon
Cleveland, TN
"Bendin' Glass 'n Passin' Gas"
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