Re: Radiation & Mysticism (and Anti-Nuke Kooks)

[NeilKeeney@aol.com]

In a message dated 7/13/01 9:30:28 PM Central Daylight Time, 

sandyfl@EARTHLINK.NET writes:



<< Unfortunately on Radsafe, one would think 

 that one must protect us from anything that appears to be of an 

 anti-nuclear stance. How childish! Nothing more than children 

 trying to protect what they believe they have undeniable right to 

 protect.

 

 Disagree. State that. Leave the insults at home, and off of the 

 listserver. You want to argue .. let me suggest that you start with 

 those who can make a difference, and stop picking on someone 

 here on Radsafe, simply because they hold a different opinion than 

 yours (ours). >>





Sandy, Fritz, et al:



I respect the rights of others to write or utter upon the opinons of anything 

on the planet.  But.  I don't believe in letting what is, fundamentally, a 

destructive intention to go unaddressed.  So.  I have observed the back and 

forth on the list throughout the week and have with held from commenting 

because I thought others were doing a fine job.  This is how I am justifying 

:-) this diatribe and the bandwidth it requires.



My conscience compels me, based on my understanding and knowledge of 

radiation, radioactive materials, and the biological effects of these as they 

are currently characterized, to disagree with a reasonable or even polite 

position with respect to an anti-nuclear viewpoint.



I regard the positions and viewpoints of anti-nuclear activists to be 

contrary to broad areas of planetary survival (not simply humanoid) relative 

to their carte-blanche disagreements with the use of nuclear power as a major 

component of base-load energy production in the overall global energy needs 

of the planet.



It is not a question of having sufficient data with which to think.  Data 

concerning the effects of ionizing radiation exists at levels well beyond 

which Joe Occupational Worker is exposed.  Note: this is the informed (and 

apparently healthy as recently described on this list) occupational worker, 

not your average Joe Earthling who receives much less…



At issue here, at least from my viewpoint, is the insistence on being right 

at the expense of destroying a constructive, pro-survival mechanism by which 

energy could be made broadly available.  This completely satisfies the 

definition of evil that I employ:



"Some action or activity that is more destructive than it is constructive 

along all aspects of survival."



This definition transcends the merely humanoid condition and encompasses 

planetary life forms as well.  It also extends to the levels of survival that 

could otherwise be attained in the absence of such destructive actions and 

intentions.



That is the crux of the matter, the intention behind these destructive 

efforts or, minimally, counter-constructive efforts.  I have borne witness to 

many examples of these destructive efforts as have all professionals in the 

disciplines associated with radiation protection.  The billions in resources 

wasted and the diverted attention from technological advances for the purpose 

of countering fundamentally baseless arguments meet, also, my definition of 

evil.  If there were truly a game here, beyond dramatizing "I have to be 

right so I'll make you wrong" by anti-nuke global energy management experts 

it would one where they would be busy actually demonstrating this rightness 

or degrees of rightness.



I challenge members of the Anti-Nuke-Kook-Kamp-Kolalition to the following 

game.



Take the ideal scene for Germany's "Windmills for Greens" Project in Germany.

Using ONLY renewable energy resources and WITHOUT creating ANY condition in 

which additional radiation exposure above background levels would result to 

anything or anybody on the planet, describe how this can be done.



Do something constructive and actually demonstrate that you have planetary 

survival as your prime purpose.  Demonstrate this noble purpose by actually 

helping, by actually creating, by actually doing something, if it's truly in 

your nature.



To increase the necessity level on this game, let's say Joe Earthling has a 

very big problem coming that only anti-nukes can solve because the 

technologically advanced populations are out near Alpha-Centauri by now in 

their fission powered ships.  We need to launch a space probe to handle an 

asteroid that we want to push out of an intersecting orbital convergence with 

earth eight years hence using a solar panel powered windmill or something.  

We need the launch platform to be fully operational four years hence. Let's 

build it in Germany, apparently they don't mind platforms and such, so let's 

just go ahead and build it there in the middle of the proposed windmill farm. 

 One more won't make a difference and they can put a ships mast on it or 

something later.



You have to describe how to do all this from scratch, otherwise, there's no 

game here.  You have to do something here, not just whine about all the Nuke 

Plants and all the radioactive material they leave lying about and the 

radiation they spew out on the general populace. So. Listed below are a few 

of the things that I think will be needed to do this.  I'm sure others will 

have more precise needs or thoughts about it and they can add to it later so, 

just consider this a thumbnail sketch.  Anti's are apparently used to a glib 

level of planning anyway…



I have inserted particular reminders with some of these to ensure that no 

additional radioactive materials are disturbed and that no additional 

radiation exposures result.  If I receive a plan that actually describes how 

the space probe could be successfully launched in time to avert disaster when 

the asteroid stikes a nuclear plant somewhere, I will be the first convert to 

anti-nuke-kookism.



Baseload Power Supply Resource (Wind Mills) Construction Phase

We need a power supply for all this first.  Before we have the supply, we 

have to create the mechanisms by which this is obtained.  Either a generator 

or a collector of some sort.  Let's say windmills are the solution here and 

will be the primary source for all our motive force needs.  Let's build 'em.  

Start.



Sources of steel for structural support:

Describe where you will obtain the steel.  Most likely it should be salvaged 

only from existing structures.  Recall - NO radioactive materials, therefore, 

no mining, milling, or smelting (TENORM, NORM…).



Getting the steel to the smelter:

Describe how the steel will be moved to the smelter or blacksmith shop or 

where-ever for steel girder/structural member support extrusion.  No hauling 

the stuff around using petroleum fired internal combustion engines 

(petro-chem industry - TENORM, NORM…).



Steel girder/structural member extrusion

Describe to me how you will solve the power supply problem for the smelter.  

I allow that the smelter already exists.  You don't have to build that.  But. 

 You may not power it from conventional sources.  This must be powered by a 

renewable energy source, I will even allow microwave power conveyance from 

some source - it's not "ionizing" radiation (but the birds won't understand 

that...).  Recall that ionizing radiation, your most commonly voiced 

complaint is common in conventional baseload energy production sources, 

including natural gas.  So.  Nix that.  Smelter must be powered from solar 

panels or windmills or some source that does not somehow result in additional 

radioactive materials being exposed (no geothermal - too much TENORM…). So. 

Maybe you have to go build a big solar panel array first or use a tidal 

generator, make a bunch of fuel cells or something.  Just don't make use of a 

source using materials the creation of which results in additional radiation 

exposure for anyone in it's manufacture.



Source of windmill support foundations

Describe where you will get some concrete that is free of radioactive 

material and how it could be produced without creating any NORM or TENORM 

problems at all.  After failing to do that, then tell me how you could use a 

polymer of some sort (plastic) without using a petroleum like source (NORM, 

TENORM).  OK, well, maybe try simply using untreated wood since a lot of the 

treatments are petroleum based.  Maybe that will work - for a little while…



Installation of foundations

Describe the process by which millions of tons of sedimentary materials will 

be displaced for foundations without the disruption of any naturally 

occurring radioactive materials in the sediment. (NORM)



Erection of towers.

Describe to me how the towers will be erected without the use of petroleum 

based internal combustion engines.  (NORM, TENORM)  You are permitted to use 

alcohol fuels, but not from crops grown using commercial fertilizers. (NORM, 

TENORM)



We can also just nix the quality assurance program on structural engineering. 

 Most of involves a little radiography here and there and we know that's bad 

right?  Anyway.  You can't use any form of radiography anywhere in any of 

this project, including the construction of the actual space probe, which, 

incidentally, may have absolutely no radioactive materials aboard.  Oh yeah.  

No using any form of radioactive materials during any welding either…



Power transmission lines

Describe to me the source for the production of such materials. Recall you 

may not utilize materials the creation of which results in additional 

radiation exposure.  Therefore, nix any mining or milling for copper or 

aluminum.  Also, you have to find another source for your insulation 

materials.  (no petroleum based products, no neoprene, no plastics)  I 

suppose you could use plain old-fashioned rubber from the trees but you might 

have a conductivity/resistance problem…



Energy storage and capacitor discharge mechanisms

New problem. Please describe how you would maintain a consistent, 

steady-state baseload power supply for project needs, including the fridge, 

stove, hot water heater, furnace, a/c etc. (no gas...)  Remember, we have a 

schedule to keep and an asteroid to deflect with non-nuclear, 

non-conventional means.  If it hits, we'll have lots more NORM to contend 

with along with a messed-up nuclear plant.



Cite the origin of all those batteries, capacitors, and in what type of 

structure are you going to keep them maintained.  I'll let you off with the 

manufacture of these by conventional methods.  I want to know how you will 

mock all this up to supply the project with power needs upon demand.  You'll 

need a good-sized building (more construction sans concrete) and a fair 

amount of connectivity (no materials mined or milled mind you).



I think we're done with some of the big chunks of the power supply problem.  

Now.  Onto the launch platform.  Well.  Perhaps we can save that for the next 

milestone update.  I think this will keep you occupied for a couple 

half-lives…



So far here, I'm thinking that the resources necessary to do away with 

Nuclear Power generation options because of all the radioactive materials 

involved, would most likely result in the generation of a whole lot of 

radioactive material being required to do that.  Hmmm.



Opinions are mine and are not necessarily those of my cohorts.  I've simply 

reached the end-phenomenon of what I regard as an evil purpose and intention 

and a whole lot of stupidity that's going to keep mankind in the muck if we 

allow it to go unaddressed.  There are many solutions awaiting our 

technological arrival at some plateau.  Windmills are a Quixotic (grin) 

solution although, I think the old ones I see in the fields ARE very 

picturesque.



Neil Keeney

RRPT

Neilkeeney@aol.com