Re: Radiation & Miss Ty Cism

[NeilKeeney@AOL.COM]

Radsafers & Anti-nukers,:



Ok, so the thread's a little old now but, I still wish to throw down the 

challenge glove to those who really want a GAME on creating on a better 

future for planet Earth with respect to global energy management policies.



I personnally and professionally regard the positions and viewpoints of 

anti-nuclear activists to be contrary to broad areas of planetary survival 

(not simply humanoid) relative to the carte-blanche disagreements with the 

use of nuclear power as a major component of base-load energy production in 

the overall global energy needs of the planet.  Since the primary argument 

seems to be about the irresponsibility of the industry and it's professionals 

and the exposure of Joe Earthling to ionizing radiation, I offer the 

following game.  The game is, fundamentally, to develop or describe a plan 

where-by anti-nukes could do away with the generation of sources of ionizing 

radiation including all those nuclear plants around the globe.



OK.  Here's a few of the parameters for this game:

The game must have some practical solutions to real problems of everyday 

survival. By "survival" I don't mean having to wear bear skins and use stone 

knives.  Suvival here means that you don't squash the creative thrust of 

mankind to survive at higher levels and standards.  Also, no "Glib" 

handlings.  For example, one solution for the parking problem at the Pentagon 

is to park on the moon.  While this may be one option the government might 

grant funds to study,  that type of problem solving is not permitted here.  

No wand-waving, ok?



To increase the necessity level on planning for this transition, let's say 

Joe Earthling has a very big problem coming that only anti-nukes can solve 

because the all the pro-nukes or Anti-Antinukes are out near Alpha-Centauri 

by now in their fission powered ships.  Joe Earthling needs to launch a space 

vehicle or probe to handle an asteroid that should be pushed out of an 

intersecting orbital convergence with Earth eight years hence.  The ground 

rules are that you can use anything to accomplish this except something that 

will result in the exposure of anyone on the planet to ionizing radiation.  

That also means you can't use any explosives in space, nuclear or 

conventional, since the sources for these contain radioactive material.



You have to do something here, not just whine about all the Nuke Plants and 

all the radioactive material they leave lying about and the radiation they 

spew out on the general populace. So. Listed below are a few of the things 

that I think will be needed to do this.  I'm sure others will have more 

precise needs or thoughts about it and they can add to it later. So. Just 

consider this a thumbnail sketch. 



We need a launch platform to be fully operational four years hence. Let's 

build it in Germany, apparently they don't mind platforms and such, so let's 

just go ahead and build it there in the middle of the proposed windmill farm. 

 One more won't make a difference and they can put a ships mast on it or 

something later.



You have to describe how to do all this from scratch, otherwise, there's no 

game here.  Using ONLY renewable energy resources and WITHOUT creating ANY 

condition in which additional radiation exposure above background levels 

would result to anything or anybody on the planet, describe how this can be 

done.



I have inserted particular reminders with some of these to ensure that no 

additional radioactive materials are disturbed and that no additional 

radiation exposures result.



Baseload Power Supply Resource (Wind Mills) Construction Phase

We need a power supply for all this first.  Before we have the supply, we 

have to create the mechanisms by which this is obtained.  Either a generator 

or a collector of some sort.  Let's say windmills are the solution here and 

will be the primary source for all our motive force needs.  Let's build 'em.  

Start.



Sources of steel for structural support:

Describe where you will obtain the steel.  Most likely it should be salvaged 

only from existing structures.  Recall - NO radioactive materials, therefore, 

no mining, milling, or smelting (TENORM, NORM…).



Getting the steel to the smelter:

Describe how the steel will be moved to the smelter or blacksmith shop or 

where-ever for steel girder/structural member support extrusion.  No hauling 

the stuff around using petroleum fired internal combustion engines 

(petro-chem industry - TENORM, NORM…).



Steel girder/structural member extrusion

Describe to me how you will solve the power supply problem for the smelter.  

I allow that the smelter already exists.  You don't have to build that.  But. 

 You may not power it from conventional sources.  This must be powered by a 

renewable energy source, I will even allow microwave power conveyance from 

some source - it's not "ionizing" radiation (but the birds won't understand 

that...).  Recall that ionizing radiation, your most commonly voiced 

complaint is common in conventional baseload energy production sources, 

including natural gas.  So.  Nix that.  Smelter must be powered from solar 

panels or windmills or some source that does not somehow result in additional 

radioactive materials being exposed (no geothermal - too much TENORM…). So. 

Maybe you have to go build a big solar panel array first or use a tidal 

generator, make a bunch of fuel cells or something.  Just don't make use of a 

source using materials the creation of which results in additional radiation 

exposure for anyone in it's manufacture.



Source of windmill support foundations

Describe where you will get some concrete that is free of radioactive 

material and how it could be produced without creating any NORM or TENORM 

problems at all.  After failing to do that, then tell me how you could use a 

polymer of some sort (plastic) without using a petroleum like source (NORM, 

TENORM).  OK, well, maybe try simply using untreated wood since a lot of the 

treatments are petroleum based.  Maybe that will work - for a little while…



Installation of foundations

Describe the process by which millions of tons of sedimentary materials will 

be displaced for foundations without the disruption of any naturally 

occurring radioactive materials in the sediment. (NORM)



Erection of towers.

Describe to me how the towers will be erected without the use of petroleum 

based internal combustion engines.  (NORM, TENORM)  You are permitted to use 

alcohol fuels, but not from crops grown using commercial fertilizers. (NORM, 

TENORM)



We can also just nix the quality assurance program on structural engineering. 

 Most of involves a little radiography here and there and we know that's bad 

right?  Anyway.  You can't use any form of radiography anywhere in any of 

this project, including the construction of the actual space probe, which, 

incidentally, may have absolutely no radioactive materials aboard.  Oh yeah.  

No using any form of radioactive materials during any welding either…



Power transmission lines

Describe to me the source for the production of such materials. Recall you 

may not utilize materials the creation of which results in additional 

radiation exposure.  Therefore, nix any mining or milling for copper or 

aluminum.  Also, you have to find another source for your insulation 

materials.  (no petroleum based products, no neoprene, no plastics)  I 

suppose you could use plain old-fashioned rubber from the trees but you might 

have a conductivity/resistance problem…



Energy storage and capacitor discharge mechanisms

New problem. Please describe how you would maintain a consistent, 

steady-state baseload power supply for project needs, including the fridge, 

stove, hot water heater, furnace, a/c etc. (no gas...)  Remember, we have a 

schedule to keep and an asteroid to deflect with non-nuclear, 

non-conventional means.  If it hits, we'll have lots more NORM to contend 

with along with a messed-up nuclear plant.



Cite the origin of all those batteries, capacitors, and in what type of 

structure are you going to keep them maintained.  I'll let you off with the 

manufacture of these by conventional methods.  I want to know how you will 

mock all this up to supply the project with power needs upon demand.  You'll 

need a good-sized building (more construction sans concrete) and a fair 

amount of connectivity (no materials mined or milled mind you).



I think we're done with some of the big chunks of the power supply problem.  

Now.  Onto the launch platform.  Well.  Perhaps we can save that for the next 

milestone update.  I think this will keep you occupied for a couple 

half-lives…



So far here, I'm thinking that the resources necessary to do away with 

Nuclear Power generation options because of all the radioactive materials 

involved, would most likely result in the generation of a whole lot of 

radioactive material being required to do that.  Hmmm.



Opinions are mine and are not necessarily those of my cohorts.  I've simply 

reached the end-phenomenon of what I regard as an evil purpose and intention 

and a whole lot of stupidity that's going to keep mankind in the muck if we 

allow it to go unaddressed.  There are many solutions awaiting our 

technological arrival at some plateau.  Windmills are a Quixotic (grin) 

solution although, I think the old ones I see in the fields ARE very 

picturesque.



Neil Keeney

RRPT

Neilkeeney@aol.com





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