Re: Radiation & Miss Ty Cism

[Muckerheide <muckerheide@MEDIAONE.NET>]

Sounds a lot like another confrontation:



In 3001 man had long since been able to create any life form in the lab, and

had recently succeeded in "creating" life by putting inert materials in a

test tube and providing the right temperatures, pressures, and energies for

just the right amount of time.  He was feeling pretty good. So he told god

he didn't need him any more.  And he pointed out that he had created life

much more quickly than the billions of years that it had taken god.  He

challenged god to a race to see who could do it faster. God said ok.  So the

man reached down and grabbed a handful of dirt.  "Hey," said god; "get your

own dirt."



Regards, Jim

===========



> Radsafers & Anti-nukers,:

> 

> Ok, so the thread's a little old now but, I still wish to throw down the

> challenge glove to those who really want a GAME on creating on a better

> future for planet Earth with respect to global energy management policies.

> 

> I personnally and professionally regard the positions and viewpoints of

> anti-nuclear activists to be contrary to broad areas of planetary survival

> (not simply humanoid) relative to the carte-blanche disagreements with the

> use of nuclear power as a major component of base-load energy production in

> the overall global energy needs of the planet.  Since the primary argument

> seems to be about the irresponsibility of the industry and it's professionals

> and the exposure of Joe Earthling to ionizing radiation, I offer the

> following game.  The game is, fundamentally, to develop or describe a plan

> where-by anti-nukes could do away with the generation of sources of ionizing

> radiation including all those nuclear plants around the globe.

> 

> OK.  Here's a few of the parameters for this game:

> The game must have some practical solutions to real problems of everyday

> survival. By "survival" I don't mean having to wear bear skins and use stone

> knives.  Suvival here means that you don't squash the creative thrust of

> mankind to survive at higher levels and standards.  Also, no "Glib"

> handlings.  For example, one solution for the parking problem at the Pentagon

> is to park on the moon.  While this may be one option the government might

> grant funds to study,  that type of problem solving is not permitted here.

> No wand-waving, ok?

> 

> To increase the necessity level on planning for this transition, let's say

> Joe Earthling has a very big problem coming that only anti-nukes can solve

> because the all the pro-nukes or Anti-Antinukes are out near Alpha-Centauri

> by now in their fission powered ships.  Joe Earthling needs to launch a space

> vehicle or probe to handle an asteroid that should be pushed out of an

> intersecting orbital convergence with Earth eight years hence.  The ground

> rules are that you can use anything to accomplish this except something that

> will result in the exposure of anyone on the planet to ionizing radiation.

> That also means you can't use any explosives in space, nuclear or

> conventional, since the sources for these contain radioactive material.

> 

> You have to do something here, not just whine about all the Nuke Plants and

> all the radioactive material they leave lying about and the radiation they

> spew out on the general populace. So. Listed below are a few of the things

> that I think will be needed to do this.  I'm sure others will have more

> precise needs or thoughts about it and they can add to it later. So. Just

> consider this a thumbnail sketch.

> 

> We need a launch platform to be fully operational four years hence. Let's

> build it in Germany, apparently they don't mind platforms and such, so let's

> just go ahead and build it there in the middle of the proposed windmill farm.

> One more won't make a difference and they can put a ships mast on it or

> something later.

> 

> You have to describe how to do all this from scratch, otherwise, there's no

> game here.  Using ONLY renewable energy resources and WITHOUT creating ANY

> condition in which additional radiation exposure above background levels

> would result to anything or anybody on the planet, describe how this can be

> done.

> 

> I have inserted particular reminders with some of these to ensure that no

> additional radioactive materials are disturbed and that no additional

> radiation exposures result.

> 

> Baseload Power Supply Resource (Wind Mills) Construction Phase

> We need a power supply for all this first.  Before we have the supply, we

> have to create the mechanisms by which this is obtained.  Either a generator

> or a collector of some sort.  Let's say windmills are the solution here and

> will be the primary source for all our motive force needs.  Let's build 'em.

> Start.

> 

> Sources of steel for structural support:

> Describe where you will obtain the steel.  Most likely it should be salvaged

> only from existing structures.  Recall - NO radioactive materials, therefore,

> no mining, milling, or smelting (TENORM, NORMŠ).

> 

> Getting the steel to the smelter:

> Describe how the steel will be moved to the smelter or blacksmith shop or

> where-ever for steel girder/structural member support extrusion.  No hauling

> the stuff around using petroleum fired internal combustion engines

> (petro-chem industry - TENORM, NORMŠ).

> 

> Steel girder/structural member extrusion

> Describe to me how you will solve the power supply problem for the smelter.

> I allow that the smelter already exists.  You don't have to build that.  But.

> You may not power it from conventional sources.  This must be powered by a

> renewable energy source, I will even allow microwave power conveyance from

> some source - it's not "ionizing" radiation (but the birds won't understand

> that...).  Recall that ionizing radiation, your most commonly voiced

> complaint is common in conventional baseload energy production sources,

> including natural gas.  So.  Nix that.  Smelter must be powered from solar

> panels or windmills or some source that does not somehow result in additional

> radioactive materials being exposed (no geothermal - too much TENORMŠ). So.

> Maybe you have to go build a big solar panel array first or use a tidal

> generator, make a bunch of fuel cells or something.  Just don't make use of a

> source using materials the creation of which results in additional radiation

> exposure for anyone in it's manufacture.

> 

> Source of windmill support foundations

> Describe where you will get some concrete that is free of radioactive

> material and how it could be produced without creating any NORM or TENORM

> problems at all.  After failing to do that, then tell me how you could use a

> polymer of some sort (plastic) without using a petroleum like source (NORM,

> TENORM).  OK, well, maybe try simply using untreated wood since a lot of the

> treatments are petroleum based.  Maybe that will work - for a little whileŠ

> 

> Installation of foundations

> Describe the process by which millions of tons of sedimentary materials will

> be displaced for foundations without the disruption of any naturally

> occurring radioactive materials in the sediment. (NORM)

> 

> Erection of towers.

> Describe to me how the towers will be erected without the use of petroleum

> based internal combustion engines.  (NORM, TENORM)  You are permitted to use

> alcohol fuels, but not from crops grown using commercial fertilizers. (NORM,

> TENORM)

> 

> We can also just nix the quality assurance program on structural engineering.

> Most of involves a little radiography here and there and we know that's bad

> right?  Anyway.  You can't use any form of radiography anywhere in any of

> this project, including the construction of the actual space probe, which,

> incidentally, may have absolutely no radioactive materials aboard.  Oh yeah.

> No using any form of radioactive materials during any welding eitherŠ

> 

> Power transmission lines

> Describe to me the source for the production of such materials. Recall you

> may not utilize materials the creation of which results in additional

> radiation exposure.  Therefore, nix any mining or milling for copper or

> aluminum.  Also, you have to find another source for your insulation

> materials.  (no petroleum based products, no neoprene, no plastics)  I

> suppose you could use plain old-fashioned rubber from the trees but you might

> have a conductivity/resistance problemŠ

> 

> Energy storage and capacitor discharge mechanisms

> New problem. Please describe how you would maintain a consistent,

> steady-state baseload power supply for project needs, including the fridge,

> stove, hot water heater, furnace, a/c etc. (no gas...)  Remember, we have a

> schedule to keep and an asteroid to deflect with non-nuclear,

> non-conventional means.  If it hits, we'll have lots more NORM to contend

> with along with a messed-up nuclear plant.

> 

> Cite the origin of all those batteries, capacitors, and in what type of

> structure are you going to keep them maintained.  I'll let you off with the

> manufacture of these by conventional methods.  I want to know how you will

> mock all this up to supply the project with power needs upon demand.  You'll

> need a good-sized building (more construction sans concrete) and a fair

> amount of connectivity (no materials mined or milled mind you).

> 

> I think we're done with some of the big chunks of the power supply problem.

> Now.  Onto the launch platform.  Well.  Perhaps we can save that for the next

> milestone update.  I think this will keep you occupied for a couple

> half-livesŠ

> 

> So far here, I'm thinking that the resources necessary to do away with

> Nuclear Power generation options because of all the radioactive materials

> involved, would most likely result in the generation of a whole lot of

> radioactive material being required to do that.  Hmmm.

> 

> Opinions are mine and are not necessarily those of my cohorts.  I've simply

> reached the end-phenomenon of what I regard as an evil purpose and intention

> and a whole lot of stupidity that's going to keep mankind in the muck if we

> allow it to go unaddressed.  There are many solutions awaiting our

> technological arrival at some plateau.  Windmills are a Quixotic (grin)

> solution although, I think the old ones I see in the fields ARE very

> picturesque.

> 

> Neil Keeney

> RRPT

> Neilkeeney@aol.com

> 

> 

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