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Re: Banned from Yet Another List
Hmmm ... the disclaimer that Sierra Club puts out when you join is interesting ...
"The information and opinions expressed in messages posted by individual List participants (the "posted content") are those of the sender, and are not necessarily approved or endorsed by the Sierra Club. It is the sole responsibility of the sender to ensure that the posted content is accurate and does not infringe or violate the intellectual property rights or other rights of third parties. The Sierra Club does not screen the posted content for such violations and makes no representations or warranties of any kind regarding the posted content." So ... how do they get away with "censorship"??
Jim Hardeman
Jim_Hardeman@mail.dnr.state.ga.us
>>> "Jim Hoerner" <jim_hoerner@HOTMAIL.COM> 4/24/2002 21:17:30 >>>
So this is what I do when I'm censored. I announce it. I've been informed
that I've been silenced on yet another list, for things I did not even post
to the list!
This time it's Sierra Club's Federal Facilities/Nuclear Waste Task Force
CONS-EQST-FED-FACILITIES-COMM@LISTS.SIERRACLUB.ORG
Join the list at
http://lists.sierraclub.org/SCRIPTS/WA.EXE?SUBED1=cons-eqst-fed-facilities-comm&A=1
:-)
Dr. Ruth may want to subscribe. A couple of people cowardly mentioned her.
I've included one below. The other one said to please unsubscribe her if
Dr. Ruth was a member.
>From: Tori Woodard <toriwoodard@scinternet.net>
>To: CONS-EQST-FED-FACILITIES-COMM@LISTS.SIERRACLUB.ORG
>Subject: Jim Hoerner should be removed from list
>Dear Jim,
>
> I have received a copy of an e-mail that you apparently posted on the
>radsafe list. If you are the same Jim Hoerner who posted it, you should
>not be
>on the Sierra Club's Federal Facilities/ Nuclear Waste Task Force list. I
>have
>pasted in your radsafe e-mail below your posting to our list about the MOX
>plan,
>so that everyone on the Federal Facilities/Nuclear Waste Task Force list
>can see
>what you told the radsafe people.
>
> At this time I would like to ask Doris Cellarius or whoever monitors
>the
>Federal Facilities/Nuclear Waste Task Force list to initiate a process to
>remove
>Jim Hoerner from the list. As I am new to the list myself, I don't know
>what
>your process is, but I know we can't strategize effectively with an
>adversary
>undercutting our list. I for one will not feel comfortable sharing
>strategy
>ideas until Jim is off the list.
>
>Tori Woodard
>Nuclear Waste Chair, Conservation Chair
>Glen Canyon Group
[snip my post to RadSafe encouraging people to DO SOMETHING]
>From: Karl Johanson <karljohanson@shaw.ca>
>If in fact you're that afraid of opinions which don't meet with your
>personal definition of "official truth" then I'd as soon you dropped me
>from
>the list as well.
>
>"Without censorship, things can get terribly confused in the public mind."
>---General William Westmoreland
>
>Science works, not because scientists are necessarily the smartest people,
>but because scientists admit the possibility that they are wrong, invite
>commentary on their work. Also the scientific method has checks and
>balances
>against error. Science is a method of striving to discover the truth, it's
>not something one can point at and claim to be truth. However, when you
>decide you already know the truth & that you must censor those who disagree
>with that 'truth', you're in the realm of superstition, not science.
>
>I invite you to think about and retract what you said Tori.
>
>Karl Johanson
>Peace
>From: Jim Hoerner <jim_hoerner@hotmail.com>
>Thank you very much, Karl. I salute you, sir.
>
>Like you, I value freedom of speech. While I disagree with what Tori said,
>I respect his or her right to say it. I cannot emphasize that strongly
>enough.
>
>Censorship is easy. Respecting multiple viewpoints takes effort.
>
[snip]
>
>I do not understand why someone would want to censor me for wanting the US
>and Russia to cooperate on the destruction of literally thousands of
>plutonium warheads. While it may be self-centered (I have two small
>children), I believe that using these warheads in reactors to produce
>electricity to power cities for the good of humanity is much better than
>letting them fall into the hands of terrorists that would use them to
>destroy cities.
>
>Best regards, all. And hello, or farewell, as the case may be.
>
>Jim Hoerner
>Manager of the Yahoo Group Know_Nukes, where all viewpoints are respected.
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Know_Nukes/
>From: Citizen Alert-Vegas <Kalynda@citizenalert.org>
>I have to say I totally agree with Tori. I have not posted to this
>list except an occasional news clipping, nor have I put out an intro
>because I have no idea what it may end up being used for with Mr.
>Horner on this list. It is not about censorship, it is about feeling
>safe to strategize or letting people know your background without it
>being used for "ulterior motives". And I have the same feelings that
>Susan Dayton has about Ruth Weiner ever since since I meet her. If
>this is going to be an open discussion list, that is one thing, but
>to strategize will take a closed moderated list that everyone knows
>who everyone is and what business they are about. I think a lot of
>great things have happened and been discussed on this list and I
>would love to more than just lurk.
>
>That's my two cents worth. Thanks for being brave enough to say
>something Tori.
>
>Kalynda Tilges
>Nuclear Issues Coordinator
>Citizen Alert - Las Vegas
>P.O.Box 17173
>Las Vegas, NV 89114
>702-796-5662 Voice
>702-796-4886 Fax
>"mailto:kalynda@citizenalert.org";
>http://www.citizenalert.org
[I attempted to reply to this pst and point out that Kalynda of Citizen
Alert is currently a member of Know_Nukes (the very first person to
subscribe as a matter of fact), and I would never consider banning her. My
post bounced, though.]
Regards,
Jim
--
Hold the door for the stranger behind you. When the driver a
half-car-length in front of you signals to get over, slow down. Smile and
say "hi" to the folks you pass on the sidewalk. Give blood. Volunteer.
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