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Re: OSHA & Radiation (was: Badges for surgery)
I recall a vendor trying to sell self-contained air packs. (pre-operational)
He said that he would never want to go into a radiation area, it was just
too dangerous. Then he proceeded to tell us about one of the major
advantages of his system. The harness had steel wires imbedded so that you
could enter into very high heat areas and your air pack would hang on even
if the webbing had burned off.
Different strokes for different folks.
Roy C. Craft, CHP
Consulting Health Physicist
1707 Pecan Street
Bay City, TX 77414
rcraft@wcnet.net
(979 245 9991)
----- Original Message -----
From: "HP Dean" <RadConDean@comcast.net>
To: "William V Lipton" <liptonw@DTEENERGY.COM>; "Bradt, Clayton"
<Clayton.Bradt@LABOR.STATE.NY.US>
Cc: "Radsafe-Digest (E-mail)" <radsafe-digest@list.vanderbilt.edu>;
<crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2004 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: OSHA & Radiation (was: Badges for surgery)
> Been there and done that and still received a "no way will we enter the
area
> in an emergency" no from a major city fire department and law enforcement
> agency. The paint on the radioactive material signs would produced more
of
> a health hazard than the stuff in side, if ingested. They said, they
would
> actually wait till we arrived and pulled the body out of the area, or such
> and such.
>
> Dean Chaney, CHP
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William V Lipton" <liptonw@DTEENERGY.COM>
> To: "Bradt, Clayton" <Clayton.Bradt@LABOR.STATE.NY.US>
> Cc: "Radsafe-Digest (E-mail)" <radsafe-digest@list.vanderbilt.edu>;
> <crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM>
> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2004 4:20 AM
> Subject: Re: OSHA & Radiation (was: Badges for surgery)
>
>
> > It's a good idea for a facility to provide training to local emergency
> response
> > organizations, or, as a minimum, give them a tour of the facility.
> >
> > The opinions expressed are strictly mine.
> > It's not about dose, it's about trust.
> > Curies forever.
> >
> > Bill Lipton
> > liptonw@dteenergy.com
> >
> >
> > "Bradt, Clayton" wrote:
> >
> > > All NYS Labor Dept. licensees are required to notify the local police
> and
> > > fire departments of the presence of rad material at their facility,
and
> > > inform them of any special emergency procedures, contact information,
> etc.
> > > as necessary. There is even a special hazardous materials report form
> that
> > > must be submitted to the fire department as well. It is up to the
local
> > > responding agencies to make use of the information they are given to
> plan
> > > their response to these facilities. This is where the breakdown
occurs.
> > > They take the information and file it (maybe) and never follow up on
it.
> If
> > > the EMTs who responded to the electrocution incident had just read the
> > > Emergency Response Guidebook, they would have known there was no
reason
> to
> > > balk at entering this facility. But even that level of training was
> > > lacking.
> > >
> > > Clayton J. Bradt, CHP
> > > Principal Radiophysicist
> > > NYS Dept. of Labor
> > > Radiological Health Unit
> > > voice: (518) 457-1202
> > > fax: (518) 485-7406
> > > e-mail: Clayton.Bradt@labor.state.ny.us
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: William V Lipton [mailto:liptonw@dteenergy.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:02 AM
> > > > To: Bradt, Clayton
> > > > Cc: Radsafe-Digest (E-mail); 'crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM'
> > > > Subject: Re: OSHA & Radiation (was: Badges for surgery)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This incident shows the importance of emergency planning.
> > > > Facilities which may
> > > > require emergency response personnel to enter a posted area
> > > > should communicate
> > > > with those organizations who would respond to an emergency
> > > > regarding the meaning
> > > > of the posting, the expected hazards, and the appropriate
> > > > protective actions.
> > > > As you said, this can be a matter of life and death.
> > > >
> > > > It is important to train medical personnel regarding the rule
> > > > that potential
> > > > contamination should NEVER interfere with lifesaving medical
> > > > procedures. (I had
> > > > a wakeup call on this, back in 1983. We did not yet have
> > > > fuel on site, but were
> > > > refining our emergency plan. The site nurse told me that
> > > > should would not
> > > > attend to an accident victim until she was sure that he was
> > > > not contaminated!
> > > > We quickly corrected that misunderstanding.)
> > > >
> > > > The importance of training is illustrated by a medical drill,
> > > > at another nuclear
> > > > power plant, where I played a victim. The scenario had 2
> > > > victims: me - heavily
> > > > contaminated, only slightly hurt, other victim - slight
> > > > contamination, seriously
> > > > injured. I was also instructed to make a lot of noise. (A
> > > > scene was recorded
> > > > on the video of the Nuclear Shift Supervisor telling me to
> > > > "Shut the **** up.")
> > > > The responders did a good job, although, in retrospect, I
> > > > received too much
> > > > attention and the seriously injured victim not enough. The
> > > > ambulance drivers
> > > > took the whole thing a little too seriously. I was scared,
> > > > for real, when they
> > > > drove the ambulance at high speed through a blizzard.
> > > >
> > > > Nuclear power plant emergency plans generally require
> > > > training for offsite
> > > > medical responders. It's a good idea for other facilities.
> > > >
> > > > The opinions expressed are strictly mine.
> > > > It's not about dose, it's about trust.
> > > > Curies forever.
> > > >
> > > > Bill Lipton
> > > > liptonw@dteenergy.com
> > > >
> > > > "Bradt, Clayton" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > John Jacobus wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "And when was the last (or first) time OSHA inspected a
> > > > > hospital? We had an overexposure at our cyclotron
> > > > > facility, and OSHA did not respond even when we
> > > > > contacted them. We are a federal agency, and do not
> > > > > come under state regulations. I assume a state agency
> > > > > would have been interested."
> > > > >
> > > > > We had a near electrocution at a cyclotron facility not too
> > > > long ago. OSHA
> > > > > investigated that incident, but radiation exposure wasn't
> > > > an issue. OSHA
> > > > > has very few people with any radiation background. This of
> > > > course does not
> > > > > prevent them from claiming that they regulate in the area
> > > > of radiation
> > > > > hazards from x-ray and non-AEA materials. They want the
> > > > turf but won't
> > > > > invest in the personnel to do the job.
> > > > >
> > > > > With regard to the electrocution incident: We have had a
> > > > running battle with
> > > > > local code enforcement people in some municipalities who
> > > > insist on requiring
> > > > > posting on the outside of all buildings where radioactive
> > > > materials are
> > > > > stored/used - regardless of the form or quantities. (For
> > > > the protection of
> > > > > first responders, they claim.) The cyclotron facility was
> > > > located in one
> > > > > such municipality, and had a radiation sign on the outside
> > > > of the building.
> > > > > When the EMTs arrived, they at first refused to enter
> > > > because of the sign.
> > > > > Meanwhile the victim was unconscious on the floor and the
> > > > pharmacist was
> > > > > yelling and cursing at the EMTs to get them to come in to
> > > > treat him. They
> > > > > finally overcame their radiophobia and the individual was
> > > > transported to
> > > > > hospital. The victim recovered but had some severe burns.
> > > > Here again we
> > > > > have an agency (code enforcement this time) guarding turf
> > > > in an area in
> > > > > which they have no expertise. This time with near fatal
> > > > consequences.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm sure there is a lesson here for all of us......but I at
> > > > the moment I
> > > > > just can't think of what it is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Clayton J. Bradt, CHP
> > > > > Principal Radiophysicist
> > > > > NYS Dept. of Labor
> > > > > Radiological Health Unit
> > > > > voice: (518) 457-1202
> > > > > fax: (518) 485-7406
> > > > > e-mail: Clayton.Bradt@labor.state.ny.us
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > **************************************************************
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> >
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