RE: saftey of being in the proximity of someone on RAI therapy

[John Jacobus <crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM>]

I am a little confused.  I don't think we were talking

about packaged radioactive waste.  The issue was the

need to respond to waste from a patient who was

treated and released to go home.  Having landfills

respond to lost sources, e.g., calibration or gauge

sources, should be done.



--- Gerald Nicholls <Gerald.Nicholls@dep.state.nj.us>

wrote:



> I don't know how many states require landfill

> operators to have portal

> monitors but I know that New Jersey does not.  Most

> landfills and

> incinerators here have installed them but it has

> been at the urging of

> their insurance carriers, not due to state

> regulation.

> 

> I wasn't clear on one of my previous points, I agree

> that states would

> have to give upfront authorization to dispose of

> shortlived radioactive

> materials in landfills.  The point that I was trying

> to make is that

> even with such an authorization, you would still

> have the problem of who

> identifies an unknown radionuclide triggering a

> landfill monitor.  If

> the patient received waste packaging materials when

> leaving the

> hospital, and the packaging materials identified the

> contents as

> shortlived rad waste, and included contact

> information for verification,

> it should not be necessary to identify the rad

> material with gamma

> spectrometry.

> 

> Gerald Nicholls

> NJDEP

> 

> >>> John Jacobus <crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM> 08/20/04

> 12:48PM >>>

> If the states are requiring the landfill operators

> to

> have portal monitors, then the states could require

> them to have hand-held spectrometers.

> 

> 

> --- "Flanigan, Floyd" <Floyd.Flanigan@nmcco.com>

> wrote:

> 

> > I agree almost completely with one unfortunate

> point

> > of contest: The expenditure of resources to

> identify

> > the isotope once the alarm at the dump goes off.

> I'm

> > sure there is a way of addressing it efficiently

> ...

> > but who picks up the tab?

> > 

> > Floyd W. Flanigan B.S.Nuc.H.P.

> > 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: John Jacobus [mailto:crispy_bird@yahoo.com] 

> > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 11:17 AM

> > To: Gerald Nicholls; kb1ipd@HOTMAIL.COM;

> > owner-radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu;

> > radsafe@list.Vanderbilt.Edu;

> > Flanigan, Floyd; phil.egidi@state.co.us;

> > crispy_bird@YAHOO.COM 

> > Subject: RE: saftey of being in the proximity of

> > someone on RAI therapy

> > 

> > 

> > Maybe it is about time that the regulators

> consider

> > the cost outweigh the risk, and consider allowing

> > landfills to receive and dispose of short-lived

> > radioactive waste from medical treatments.

> > 

> > --- Gerald Nicholls

> > <Gerald.Nicholls@dep.state.nj.us>

> > wrote:

> > 

> > > The analogy with cheese isn't really applicable.

> 

> > > Some patients now

> > > leave hositals following nuclear medicine

> > procedures

> > > with millicurie

> > > levels of iodine.  This is excreted in urine,

> > feces

> > > and perspiration. 

> > > Many of these patients are elderly and suffer

> from

> > > incontinence and/or

> > > bowel problems.  Most home care givers aren't

> > > equipped or trained to

> > > hold wound dressing, diapers, etc. in the

> > patient's

> > > home for decay and

> > > hence the materials wind up in municipal trash.

> > > 

> > > Many landfills and incinerators now have

> radiation

> > > monitors installed

> > > and a soiled diaper contains more than enough

> > > activity to activate the

> > > alarm, even inside a filled garbage truck.  The

> > > alarms are typically set

> > > at 2X to 3X background (20 to 50 microR/hour). 

> > Most

> > > of these facilities

> > > do not have gamma spectrometry equipment

> available

> > > on site or staff

> > > trained in its use.  Hence, when the monitor

> > alarms,

> > > a visit from a

> > > state regulatory program representative or a

> > > consultant is necessary to

> > > indentify the material and assure the landfill

> or

> > > incerator operator

> > > that the waste can be safely held for decay or

> > > disposed of immediately. 

> > > As Phil Egidi pointed out, sometimes it is

> > necessary

> > > to dump a truckfull

> > > of municipal waste and search through it to find

> > and

> > > identify the item

> > > that triggered the alarm.  That can be truly

> > > problematic for a fully

> > > loaded truck that has sat in the sun for several

> > > days awaiting

> > > evaluation.

> > > 

> > > New Jersey's regulatory program typically

> receives

> > > 80 to 100 calls per

> > > year regarding radioactive materials and about

> one

> > > half of them involve

> > > I-131.  Responding to these calls takes

> resources

> > > away from more

> > > important and relevant work.  Also, the loss of

> > the

> > > truck (sometimes for

> > > up to a week) and staff time to deal with the

> > > problem are signifcant

> > > costs to the waste hauler.

> > > 

> > > It would be far better for the hospital or

> > physician

> > > to provide

> > > instructions to the patient and home care givers

> > on

> > > how to deal properly

> > > with contaminated materials, even if that

> > ultimately

> > > leads to the

> > > materials being returned to the hospital and

> held

> > > for decay.

> > > 

> > > As far as a homeowner being billed for the costs

> > of

> > > this work, I'm not

> > > aware of that ever happening but I know that it

> > has

> > > been threatened by

> > > municipal waste haulers.  I think the primary

> > reason

> > > it hasn't occurred

> > > is the difficulty in identifying the source of

> the

> > > contaminated waste.

> > > 

> > > Gerald Nicholls

> > > NJDEP

> > > 

> > > >>> "Flanigan, Floyd" <Floyd.Flanigan@nmcco.com>

> > > 08/20/04 09:52AM >>>

> > > The radiological half life of I-131 is only

> about

> > 8

> > > days. It should be

> > > at unnoticeable levels in a relatively short

> > period

> > > of time. Isotopes of

> > > this nature are used for medical applications on

> a

> > > regular basis and to

> > > my knowledge, once a patient is released from

> the

> > > hospital, there are no

> > > regulations which place controls on the

> > disposition

> > > of the resultant

> > > contaminated waste which the patient generates.

> As

> > > an example of the low

> > > level of concern for this particular isotope,

> > cheese

> > > made from milk

> > > contaminated with I-131 may be sold at market

> 

=== message truncated ===





=====

+++++++++++++++++++

"Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects."

Will Rogers



-- John

John Jacobus, MS

Certified Health Physicist

e-mail:  crispy_bird@yahoo.com





		

__________________________________

Do you Yahoo!?

New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 

************************************************************************

You are currently subscribed to the Radsafe mailing list. To

unsubscribe, send an e-mail to Majordomo@list.vanderbilt.edu  Put the

text "unsubscribe radsafe" (no quote marks) in the body of the e-mail,

with no subject line. You can view the Radsafe archives at

http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/